Quote:Yes, attempted murder is not as bad as actual murder, but we still punish both acts and they are both serious acts. If it makes me a nutter to think that someone posting on twitter that dog fighting is awesome should probably disqualify them from representing the leader of the free world, then I'll be a proud nutter. The depths you will sink to to defend a propagandist who's job is to lie. You have commitment. I'll give you that at least, but wow.

Stating an opinion about an election and being part of a fascist anti-democratic group isn't even close to the analogy above. Yes, you are a nutter for thinking a personnel opinion no matter awful that has no actual impact on their job is the same as giving credibility to a fascist anti-democratic movement, and of course, you are proud of that opinion you are fucking unhinged, And the depths you sink to push this Bothsidist bullshit is what's amazing. You are truly brain broken.

(September 30, 2022 at 4:23 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote:

(September 30, 2022 at 3:41 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: Denying an election is denying an election. Doesn't matter what year it was. Undermining democracy and the democratic process and all.

There’s different issues at play in each election.

2016, Trump managed to win despite having 2,868,686 fewer votes than Hilary Clinton because the US has a bullshit system called the Electoral College, which, at this point, seems to exist solely to give the Republican Presidential nominee the White House so he doesn’t have to win the popular vote. This (at least the part where Trump won despite having fewer votes than his opponents) is an undeniable fact. Though given that the most reasonable rationale I’ve heard for keeping an electoral college (protecting the American People from themselves if they’re dumb enough to elect a tyrant) failed to pan out when it was most needed, and that, of the three Presidential Elections since I was born that the Republicans won, they only took the popular vote in 2004, it’s a reasonable extrapolation.

2020, Joe Biden wins the Presidential Election with the most votes of any Presidential Candidate in history. Donald Trump and his sycophants claim the election was rigged, and none of his arguments to support this claim hold up to any scrutiny. I think the one time he actually succeeded in the courts, he got a couple dozen votes in Pennsylvania to flip. This was a strategy that he actually hinted at years in advance. Hell, he’s outright stated that he wants to be in power for the rest of his life. With this in mind, it’s hard to imagine this election denial as anything but a ploy to just keep Trump in power as long as possible. Especially after he cajoled his followers into storming the Capitol on the day Congress was to certify the vote count.

Edit: oh, you’re talking about Russia’s involvement in the election. That’s even more well-documented. At least, if you’re not deranged enough to read something like “ As set forth in detail in this report, the Special Counsel’s investigation established that Russia interfered in the 2016 presidential election principally through two operations. First, a Russian entity carried out asocial media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton. Second, a Russian intelligence service conducted computer-intrusion operations against entities, employees, and volunteers working on the Clinton Campaign and then released stolen documents. The investigation also identified numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump Campaign. Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.” And think “it’s totally debunked.”

The electoral college is a you problem, as those are the rules.

The now Press Secretary claims she was talking about voting rights when she said stolen election, and I agree that voting rights are a fair concern, but even so, there is not sufficient evidence that voting rights issues caused the election to go Trumps way, so she was just wrong in making that concrete claim of a stolen election. And as far as Russia goes, I think Hillary had a pretty big head start spending what, somewhere around 1 and a half billion dollars on her election bid? And little old rag tag Russia was able to turn the election? Not that you've explicitly stated that, but I don't think so. We would need clear evidence that this was the case. And what would you have suggested at the time? Do the election over because Russia interfered? No? Then what?

https://time.com/5573537/mueller-report-...erference/

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.95)]none of the new revelations threaten the validity of Trump’s election victory.[/color]

The Electoral College isn't just a me problem. It's a problem that creates a material impact on who's in the White House, and therefore how things play about on the world stage.

As for evidence about whether or not taking away voting rights led to Trump winning in 2016, here's a good place to start. For one example, Trump won Wisconsin by 27,000 votes, and, due to an extremely restrictive voter ID law, 300,000 people who voted in the previous election weren't allowed to. This leads to the lowest voter turnout in decades, including a significant decrease in voters from Milwaukee, the largest city in the state, and home of 70% of the black population of the state.

What to do after Muller? Impeach Trump, remove him from office (hopefully assuming that the Republicans at least had some bare minimums for the law, a tall order in hindsight, I know), install Mike Pence as President (who, despite his views, is still less batshit and more predictable than Trump), and create safeguards against Russian interference in the next election.

(September 30, 2022 at 12:37 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote:

(September 30, 2022 at 12:21 pm)bennyboy Wrote: I can answer this.

A person who's not been willing to uphold their responsibilities in regard to the social contract shouldn't be given a voice in molding it.

Like non-violent black drug offenders and innocent people in jail that took a plea deal because their lawyer recommended they do so? You give the system the power to take away people's votes, and they're going to use it to take away the votes of non-violent black offenders, while blacks are way over-represented in the prison population. Like Bernie Sanders and Happy Skeptic pointed out, this is a way to squash the black vote and it's racist.

If they are innocent, the problem isn't their voting rights in prison. It's that they are in prison at all.

I advocate for the release, with money earmarked for low-interest loans, training and so on, of the majority of prisoners-- ESPECIALLY those who were imprisoned on the 3-strike rule for things that are no longer serious crimes, like possession of marijuana.

Quote:If they are innocent, the problem isn't their voting rights in prison. It's that they are in prison at all.

Actually, it still is because they are legally still regarded as guilty and thus are still in prison for "breaking the social contract" and their right to vote has still been taken away.

Quote:I advocate for the release, with money earmarked for low-interest loans, training and so on, of the majority of prisoners-- ESPECIALLY those who were imprisoned on the 3-strike rule for things that are no longer serious crimes, like possession of marijuana.

Which has little to do with prisoners voting

(September 30, 2022 at 3:11 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote:

(September 30, 2022 at 3:05 pm)Helios Wrote: What the hell do her personal opinions about the 2016 election have to do with reading statements and taking questions from the press?

So you'd be fine with someone who posted that they think Trump won the 2020 election being the Press Secretary of the next Repub administration, and you don't think that type of disinformation should disqualify them? 

It's almost certain that the next press secretary of the next repub admin will say exactly that.  We don't get to choose press secretaries.  The loons do.  

(September 30, 2022 at 4:07 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: The point is, she undermined the democratic process.

I'm pretty sure that the trumpster undermined the democratic process in that one buddy.  If we're pointing fingers. All roads lead to President Crime Spree.

Remind me: when did Biden tweet about “covfefe” in the middle of the night?

When did he encourage people to inject themselves with bleach?

Who lost it?

(October 1, 2022 at 12:14 am)TaraJo Wrote: Remind me: when did Biden tweet about “covfefe” in the middle of the night?

When did he encourage people to inject themselves with bleach?

Who lost it?

Don't forget this gem:  

(October 1, 2022 at 12:14 am)TaraJo Wrote: Remind me: when did Biden tweet about “covfefe” in the middle of the night?

When did he encourage people to inject themselves with bleach?

Who lost it?

Under your username it says you prove it, I'll believe it. Well, I don't believe you. I like Biden well enough, but you are playing team sports here. His brain is clearly deteriorating, and it's clear that this is why he won't even commit to running in 2024. Why do you reckon he won't commit to running in 2024? Take a hint, sister.

(October 1, 2022 at 3:14 am)Irreligious Atheist Wrote:

(October 1, 2022 at 12:14 am)TaraJo Wrote: Remind me: when did Biden tweet about “covfefe” in the middle of the night?

When did he encourage people to inject themselves with bleach?

Who lost it?

Under your username it says you prove it, I'll believe it. Well, I don't believe you. I like Biden well enough, but you are playing team sports here. His brain is clearly deteriorating, and it's clear that this is why he won't even commit to running in 2024. Why do you reckon he won't commit to running in 2024? Take a hint, sister.

Maybe the fact that he's pushing 80, that and enough people in his own party are underwhelmed by his performance as President enough that they're seriously considering another candidate, something that I've never heard from a President in his first term.