(March 19, 2023 at 11:55 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(March 19, 2023 at 5:54 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: No, the peace deal Zelenski was negotiating would not have given Crimea back to Ukraine. That is a more recent position by Ukraine, that they must have Crimea back. The original peace deal would have actually taken even more land than that from Ukraine, and Ukraine would have promised not to join NATO. That was the deal on the table at the time, and reports say it was most likely going to go forward, until the British PM showed up for the meeting with Z.

But again, we're looping by continuing to go over that. No one here is disputing that the deal would have been highly likely to fail and fold. The debate the past few pages has been how we know what's true, and showing that we will never know much about the going ons of the world if we have no ability to read between the lines. Casey Anthony was involved in the death of her damn child, and I don't even need to know how the child died (bc the evidence was washed away) to read between the lines. What's crystal clear is crystal clear. As jury foreperson, however, would I have voted to convict Casey Anthony for murder? Nope. We don't even have evidence of how the child died, so I can't be sure beyond a reasonable doubt that a murder even took place. Could have been an accidental drowning or whatever. Like the killing of Kayley Anthony, can I provide a transcript of all that was said in the meeting between the British PM and Zelenski? Nope. But I can read between the lines, and me pointing out the obvious at the time has now been confirmed by the Israeli PM.

Please cite your sources for your claims, with reputable links, and explain why you're red-herringing this by bringing in an entirely unrelated American murder case as evidence that you're somehow right here.

Here was Ukraine's viewpoint:

Quote:Mykhailo Podolyak, a senior adviser to Zelensky, told the Financial Times that any deal would involve “the troops of the Russian Federation in any case leaving the territory of Ukraine” captured since the invasion began on February 24 — namely southern regions along the Azov and Black seas, as well as territory to the east and north of Kyiv.

Ukraine would maintain its armed forces but would be obliged to stay outside military alliances such as Nato and refrain from hosting foreign military bases on its territory.

[...]

The biggest sticking point remains Russia’s demand that Ukraine recognise its 2014 annexation of Crimea and the independence of two separatist statelets in the eastern Donbas border region.

Ukraine has refused but was willing to compartmentalise the issue, Podolyak said.

https://www.ft.com/content/7b341e46-d375...2b7fa77ef1

... and:

Quote:Another source of dispute is the status of Crimea, which was seized and annexed by Russia in 2014, and the separatist-held Donbas region in eastern Ukraine, which Russia recognises as independent. Ukraine considers both part of its territory.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/world/arid-40830248.html

Note that both articles are dated early March 2022, showing your claim that the retention of Crimea is a later add-on is  wrong. You're either uninformed, or dissimulative.

Either way, you're simply not correct. Ukraine regarded and stills regards Crimea as a sticking point, and the Russian refusal to acknowledge this, in the reportage linked above, shows you wrong. That is what sticks in the Russian craw. I'm sure the Ukrainians will pull it out, barbs and all.

Looking forward to your talking points at that time, when you must once again conform to the pigs on the animal farm. Now when did that Israeli report back about negotiations breaking down?

Also don't forget all the war crimes Russia committed like the Bucha massacre didn't help. As IA own sources has noted. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-b...eal-2023-2

https://www.thebulwark.com/no-the-united...eace-deal/

(March 20, 2023 at 5:11 am)Helios Wrote:

Quote:Zelenski was the one looking for that peace deal and just about willing to give those things up, so you'd have to ask him. I can't read his mind.

If my friend is getting beaten up in the school yard or getting his lunch money taken, I'm going to step in and try to stop it. If someone across the ocean is getting their lunch money taken, I'm not necessarily going to step in, because the world is a harsh place, and then you die.

Thank you for establishing you are a sociopath. It explains a lot.

Yup. Lack of empathy is one of the signs.

Boru

(March 20, 2023 at 6:29 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(March 20, 2023 at 5:11 am)Helios Wrote: Thank you for establishing you are a sociopath. It explains a lot.

Yup. Lack of empathy is one of the signs.

Boru

I can already hear his inevitable games of deflection and whataboutism on us pointing this out 

(March 19, 2023 at 9:09 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: If my friend is getting beaten up in the school yard or getting his lunch money taken, I'm going to step in and try to stop it. If someone across the ocean is getting their lunch money taken, I'm not necessarily going to step in, because the world is a harsh place, and then you die.

Unfortunately its not about lunch, but about territorial integrity, freedom, health and life of millions of individual people.

Thats how stupid you are, or at least how you portray yourself in order to defend the indefensible. Arent you disgusted sometime by your own lack of....so many things that prevent you from being so despicable?! No need to answer, its a rhetorical question.

And why arguing about the peace deal and Zelensky, if you dont give a shit anyway? Because on top of everything you are a despicable piece of lying shit.

(March 20, 2023 at 7:14 am)Deesse23 Wrote:

(March 19, 2023 at 9:09 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: If my friend is getting beaten up in the school yard or getting his lunch money taken, I'm going to step in and try to stop it. If someone across the ocean is getting their lunch money taken, I'm not necessarily going to step in, because the world is a harsh place, and then you die.

Unfortunately its not about lunch, but about territorial integrity, freedom, health and life of millions of individual people.

Thats how stupid you are, or at least how you portray yourself in order to defend the indefensible. Arent you disgusted sometime by your own lack of....so many things that prevent you from being so despicable?! No need to answer, its a rhetorical question.

And why arguing about the peace deal and Zelensky, if you dont give a shit abyway? Because on top of everything you are a despicable piece of lying shit.

When it's Ukraine's lunch money, he'll fold his arms and blithely watch.

When it's Russia's lunch money, he yammers incessantly about the injustice of it all.

Pretty revealing.

(March 20, 2023 at 7:49 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(March 20, 2023 at 7:14 am)Deesse23 Wrote: Unfortunately its not about lunch, but about territorial integrity, freedom, health and life of millions of individual people.

Thats how stupid you are, or at least how you portray yourself in order to defend the indefensible. Arent you disgusted sometime by your own lack of....so many things that prevent you from being so despicable?! No need to answer, its a rhetorical question.

And why arguing about the peace deal and Zelensky, if you dont give a shit abyway? Because on top of everything you are a despicable piece of lying shit.

When it's Ukraine's lunch money, he'll fold his arms and blithely watch.

When it's Russia's lunch money, he yammers incessantly about the injustice of it all.

Pretty revealing.

In Russia's case it's more the lunch money has no entitlement to but insists that it does.

(March 20, 2023 at 6:50 am)Helios Wrote:

(March 20, 2023 at 6:29 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Yup. Lack of empathy is one of the signs.

Boru

I can already hear his inevitable games of deflection and whataboutism on us pointing this out 

Says the guy with a Ukrainian flag and not the flag of an African nation in conflict in his sig instead. Why don't you care about that African nation? Sociopathy? Two can play at this game, and it's lame.

Quote:Says the guy with a Ukrainian flag and not the flag of an African nation in conflict in his sig instead. Why don't you care about that African nation? Sociopathy? Two can play at this game, and it's lame.

And right on time deflection and whataboutism. Having or not having the flag of a nation under my sig says nothing of an opinion of conflicts in Africa (which for the record I oppose depending on the nature of the conflict) so that's a non sequitur if I have ever seen one. You by contrast have stated explicitly that you don't care about Ukraine's issues. So no you can't play this game. So nice try 

IA logic- If you don't have the flag of every place in the conflict in your signature you don't care about that conflict and you can't call me out for my sociopathic takes on Ukraine.

(March 20, 2023 at 8:12 am)Irreligious Atheist Wrote:

(March 20, 2023 at 6:50 am)Helios Wrote: I can already hear his inevitable games of deflection and whataboutism on us pointing this out 

Says the guy with a Ukrainian flag and not the flag of an African nation in conflict in his sig instead. Why don't you care about that African nation? Sociopathy? Two can play at this game, and it's lame.

Which african nation currently is invaded by another african nation?
.....Come on
....Stop googling