(May 8, 2023 at 2:54 pm)FlatAssembler Wrote:

(May 8, 2023 at 12:58 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Which tells me that Macedonia and Norway need MORE restrictive gun laws.

Boru

If most mass shooters there get their guns on a black market, and those guns are produced illegally, more restrictive gun laws obviously won't help. I suspect that's the case, although I don't have hard data confirming that.

The trouble with that notion is that most mass shooters and most perpetrators of gun violence generally (American ones, at least) came by their guns legally.

Boru

(May 8, 2023 at 12:21 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: @FlatAssembler 

1. Real-world experience demonstrates that gun control laws reduce the incidence of gun violence. When the US banned assault-type weapons, mass shootings dropped like a paralyzed falcon. When the ban expired, mass shootings increased. But it’s not just mass shootings: wherever and whenever access to firearms is restricted, gun violence of ALL types decreases. This is an observed fact, no subject to rational debate. No study needed.

2. Violent crime isn’t the same as gun crime.

3. This rubbish about ‘gun free zones’ is a red herring. A gun-free zone has bugger all to do with restrictions on gun ownership.

4. Again, I’m not going to re-chew Kleck’s study. All the points that need to have been made about it have already been made.

5. I am sick to death hearing about your linguistic studies.

6. Of COURSE having a mental illness is a good predictor of being a mass shooter. How can you sensibly argue that mass shooters are mentally healthy?

Boru

Why is my Prime Minister trying to ban some hunting rifles? Because it's merely about a power grab from the government. You give them an inch, they will take a thousand miles. This is why OP is justified in criticizing what liberal countries are doing. One school shooting or mass shooting should never be justification to change entire laws. It's one freakin event. And in the US, rifles account for a tiny, tiny percentage of actual gun crime, yet these are the weapons you see politicians calling weapons of war and trying to ban the most. It's clearly a power grab, as these weapons are hardly being used at all to kill folks. It's the hand guns killing all the folks.

(May 8, 2023 at 2:59 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(May 8, 2023 at 2:55 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: To be fair... I watched the news... And there were car crashes... And deaths... On the same roads my family and I go on...Just sayin...

And which if those were caused by a man armed with an AR-15?  You ignorant ass.

Drunk drivers. Many more of those than AR-15 shooters, I assure you.

(May 8, 2023 at 2:59 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(May 8, 2023 at 2:51 pm)FlatAssembler Wrote: You claimed that people with a diagnozed mental illness should not be allowed to have guns because they are significantly more likely to commit a mass shooting, right? Well, the evidence does not support that.

So, mass shootings are more likely to be done by people with no aberrant mental processes? This means that Safir Ahamdi Musthaveanibble who shoots up a dozen Israeli schoolchildren because he believes that will create a Palestinian homeland is a perfectly sane, rational person.

Think it through, whydoancha?

Boru

You understand the difference between having a diagnozed mental illness and being insane, right? You can argue that mass shooters are mentally ill. After all, if willingness to kill strangers is not a sign of mental illness, what is? But whether a diagnozed mental illness is a good predictor of being a mass shooter is another question entirely. The vast majority of mass shooters are not seeking help from a psychiatrist before committing the mass shooting.

(May 8, 2023 at 3:04 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote:

(May 8, 2023 at 2:59 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: And which if those were caused by a man armed with an AR-15?  You ignorant ass.

Drunk drivers. Many more of those than AR-15 shooters, I assure you.

As expected, not an answer to my question.

Move the goalposts....change gears...divert, deflect...talk shit.

(May 8, 2023 at 3:01 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(May 8, 2023 at 2:54 pm)FlatAssembler Wrote: If most mass shooters there get their guns on a black market, and those guns are produced illegally, more restrictive gun laws obviously won't help. I suspect that's the case, although I don't have hard data confirming that.

The trouble with that notion is that most mass shooters and most perpetrators of gun violence generally (American ones, at least) came by their guns legally.

Boru

I was talking about Norway and Macedonia. I don't know how those mass shooters there get their guns. I suspect the vast majority of them get them illegally.

(May 8, 2023 at 3:09 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(May 8, 2023 at 3:04 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: Drunk drivers. Many more of those than AR-15 shooters, I assure you.

As expected, not an answer to my question.

Move the goalposts....change gears...divert, deflect...talk shit.

What goalposts? You seemed to be making a big claim that something could have personally impacted your life because of where it took place, and you want laws changed because of your story here, but I'm just pointing out that no one can avoid the risk of death. Death happens all day long on the roads, and that doesn't scare even one of us from staying off the streets. All of life is a risk. That was my only point. Take it or leave it.

(May 8, 2023 at 6:03 am)The Valkyrie Wrote: I'm going to stay out of this one because I'm likely to ban some fuckwit who brings up conspiracies over the bodies of DEAD FUCKING CHILDREN without discussing it with others.

What about Uvalde? Couldn't we say that technically the officers in that hallway conspired together, in that moment... To be pussies.

Uvalde was another big one for the Sandy Hook truthers though. They see that police just let it happen, and that beyond confirmed to them that the whole thing was fake. But of course, sometimes, cops are just cowards.

(May 8, 2023 at 3:15 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote:

(May 8, 2023 at 3:09 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: As expected, not an answer to my question.

Move the goalposts....change gears...divert, deflect...talk shit.

What goalposts? You seemed to be making a big claim that something could have personally impacted your life because of where it took place, and you want laws changed because of your story here, but I'm just pointing out that no one can avoid the risk of death. Death happens all day long on the roads, and that doesn't scare even one of us from staying off the streets. All of life is a risk. That was my only point. Take it or leave it.

The point is that outright gun prohibition will, if the Gary Kleck's 1995 study is anywhere close to right (and I see no reason to think it's wrong by an order of magnitude), massively increase the risk of gun deaths, rather than decrease it. Gun prohibition which is supposed to make us safer would make us far less safe.

Quote:The point is that outright gun prohibition will, if the Gary Kleck's 1995 study is anywhere close to right (and I see no reason to think it's wrong by an order of magnitude), massively increase the risk of gun deaths, rather than decrease it. Gun prohibition which is supposed to make us safer would make us far less safe.

His study isn't right though so this point is moot