(July 16, 2023 at 3:22 pm)Helios Wrote: I know you didn't but it remains a fact he is

He may be, sir. I'll have to look into it more. 
And from what I've seen here, I respect you a very great deal.

(July 16, 2023 at 4:43 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote:

(July 16, 2023 at 3:22 pm)Helios Wrote: I know you didn't but it remains a fact he is

He may be, sir. I'll have to look into it more. 
And from what I've seen here, I respect you a very great deal.

And from what I have seen I respect you a very great deal regardless of any disagreement we may have

No fucking in public threads. It's the rules.

(July 16, 2023 at 6:15 pm)Angrboda Wrote: No fucking in public threads.  It's the rules.

And yet,....................

(July 16, 2023 at 2:05 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: Are the events that he purports to be historical actually true or not. That's all I care about. 

No, they aren't, Spencer's thesis -that Muhammad PBUH never existed- is hot garbage.

Patricia Crone is a hardened revisionist -and an actual scholar of Islamic history, unlike your anti-Muslim idol- with regards to the beginnings of Islam, she casts into doubt the location of Mecca, the entire traditions or hadiths associated with the prophet, and the origin of the Qur'an itself. All her ideas are extreme and run contrary to all what Muslim historians ever wrote. And she still affirms that Muhammad undoubtedly existed : https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/mohammed_3866jsp/

Quote : "There is no doubt that Mohammed existed".

Jesus purportedly existed some 600 years before Muhammad, and even his existence is virtually uncontroversial among scholars, (in Bart Ehrman's words : "He certainly existed, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian, agrees."). We know much more about Muhammad than we know about Jesus, because the former is simply more recent.

Doubting Muhammad's existence is up there with the most ridiculous anti-Muslim claims ever made. Ironically, this denial makes the emergence of the Qur'an and the Islamic message way more difficult to explain in naturalistic terms, it perfectly plays into the hands of Muslim apologists by lending support to the thesis of divine intervention.

(July 16, 2023 at 2:05 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: Was the calendar later changed from the Arabic calendar, in which there was a "leap month" and when the biographies were written the leap months "disappeared" ?

I am not sure how any calender is relevant to your claim, that the Islamic prophet never existed. Please stick to one topic and defend your claim.

(July 15, 2023 at 8:30 pm)Astreja Wrote: It's a violation of my free will and my identity, obviously.  The moment a being "modifies" me without my explicit consent, I'm no longer myself.

So, after a surgeon modifies someone's brain to save their life -without their explicit consent-, the patient is no longer themselves?

And it's really, really hard for you, as an atheist, to justify the claim that free will exists.

(July 15, 2023 at 8:30 pm)Astreja Wrote: I'm not even interested in eternal life.  Absolutely hideous concept.

You're not interested in eternal bliss ? 

You're lying.

Actually, the Jesus of the bible almost certainly didn't exist. It is likely at a preacher called Jesus existed. Most of his reported life is invented according to a religious agenda.

The audacity of this twat! Hey fuckstain, just because your dimly lit bulb has a hard time processing the meaningless existence of hoomans, and you have to hide behind your make believe god to justify you massively arrogant ego, doesn't mean everyone is that cowardly or stupid.

(July 21, 2023 at 2:29 pm)Loaded dice Wrote:

(July 16, 2023 at 2:05 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: Are the events that he purports to be historical actually true or not. That's all I care about. 

No, they aren't, Spencer's thesis -that Muhammad PBUH never existed- is hot garbage.

Patricia Crone is a hardened revisionist -and an actual scholar of Islamic history, unlike your anti-Muslim idol- with regards to the beginnings of Islam, she casts into doubt the location of Mecca, the entire traditions or hadiths associated with the prophet, and the origin of the Qur'an itself. All her ideas are extreme and run contrary to all what Muslim historians ever wrote. And she still affirms that Muhammad undoubtedly existed : https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/mohammed_3866jsp/

Quote : "There is no doubt that Mohammed existed".

Jesus purportedly existed some 600 years before Muhammad, and even his existence is virtually uncontroversial among scholars, (in Bart Ehrman's words : "He certainly existed, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian, agrees."). We know much more about Muhammad than we know about Jesus, because the former is simply more recent.

Doubting Muhammad's existence is up there with the most ridiculous anti-Muslim claims ever made. Ironically, this denial makes the emergence of the Qur'an and the Islamic message way more difficult to explain in naturalistic terms, it perfectly plays into the hands of Muslim apologists by lending support to the thesis of divine intervention.

(July 16, 2023 at 2:05 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: Was the calendar later changed from the Arabic calendar, in which there was a "leap month" and when the biographies were written the leap months "disappeared" ?

I am not sure how any calender is relevant to your claim, that the Islamic prophet never existed. Please stick to one topic and defend your claim.

(July 15, 2023 at 8:30 pm)Astreja Wrote: It's a violation of my free will and my identity, obviously.  The moment a being "modifies" me without my explicit consent, I'm no longer myself.

So, after a surgeon modifies someone's brain to save their life -without their explicit consent-, the patient is no longer themselves?

And it's really, really hard for you, as an atheist, to justify the claim that free will exists.

(July 15, 2023 at 8:30 pm)Astreja Wrote: I'm not even interested in eternal life.  Absolutely hideous concept.

You're not interested in eternal bliss ? 

You're lying.

You have presented not one fact that refutes anything here. 
All you're doing is blowing hot air out your ass. 
Unsupported assertions. Everything .... all you have is unsupported assertions. Maybe when you get big and go to school, you may learn how to debate.
You know nothing about actual history, obviously.

Quote:I am not sure how any calender is relevant to your claim, that the Islamic prophet never existed. Please stick to one topic and defend your claim.

It's hilarious of all people you, who actually defends nothing, as that of someone here.

LOLOLOLOL
Thanks for demonstrating that you really do not know ANYTHING about history and the issues being discussed here. 
There was a "leap month" in the Arab lunar calendar, which you would have known had you ever even ONCE studied history. 
It was LATER changed (to a calendar which was in synch with the solar calendar) .. in 627 CE. Muhammad supposedly died in 625, thus he would have done a lot during 
the leap months when he was alive. The Hadith is MISSING the leap months, and anything Mohamed ever did during the leap months, because when they made up his biography, 
they forgot about leap months. Islam is all BS. That's what a calendar (not calender) has to do with your fake religion. 
https://www.timeanddate.com/date/islam-leap-year.html

I thought you said you were done with me. Are you always a liar ?

(July 21, 2023 at 2:29 pm)Loaded dice Wrote: Doubting Muhammad's existence is up there with the most ridiculous anti-Muslim claims ever made. Ironically, this denial makes the emergence of the Qur'an and the Islamic message way more difficult to explain in naturalistic terms, it perfectly plays into the hands of Muslim apologists by lending support to the thesis of divine intervention.

Positing that people tell tall tales does not make gods more likely.

What's likely, is that you've been conditioned to believe that literally everything makes your god more likely, and will say that..no matter what.

(July 21, 2023 at 2:29 pm)Loaded dice Wrote: Doubting Muhammad's existence is up there with the most ridiculous anti-Muslim claims ever made. Ironically, this denial makes the emergence of the Qur'an and the Islamic message way more difficult to explain in naturalistic terms, it perfectly plays into the hands of Muslim apologists by lending support to the thesis of divine intervention.

Not because you say so.
There's nothing miraculous about the emergence of the Qur'an. Just like all the other writing of the day, it "borrowed" many well-known stories from surrounding cultures.

1. Moses and the Fish, (came from Babylon/Ugarit/the El myths),
2. Solomon listening to the ants, common fairy tales, existing all over the Ancient Near East,
3. Jinns, (genies) working for Solomon, both common fairy tales, existing all over the Ancient Near East,
4. Mary in the temple, (stolen from one of the proto gospels),
5. Jesus talking in the crib, (from the known Proto Gospel after Jacob)
6. The Egyptian child stories, (from the Arab Child Gospel, and The Thomas' Child Gospel), both just made up fairy stories.
7. Jesus making birds from clay, (known source, .."The Child Gospel after Thomas vs 1-4),
8. Mary and the Palm, was taken from the Proto Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 20.
9. Mo's Night Journey to Heaven, taken from either the Hebrew Merebah, or the well known Gnostic "Enoc's Journey to Heaven", which is identical to to Ibn Ishaq’s story after Abu Said al-Chudri)
10. The Sleepers in the Cave, straight from the fairy story from Ephesus, (Mo got the dates wrong, but the story is right),
11. Alexander the Great, (Surah 18), (straight plagiarism), AND there was NO place in the world with enough iron blocks to close off a whole valley in 330 BC.
12. The myth about Ad. Straight from Arab folk tales.
13. Thamud – same as 12.
14. Median – copied from Arab folk tales.