(August 10, 2023 at 8:10 am)LinuxGal Wrote:

(August 10, 2023 at 8:02 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: The bombs produced a deadlock in the Imperial Cabinet. They had go before the Emperor and admit they didn't have a plan for proceeding with the war. Hirohito took the chance to say "enough!"

The emperor recorded a surrender speech on a record to be played over the radio, and some of the members of that Imperial Cabinet tried to steal the record before it went on the air, something similar to the January 6 shenanigans.

That was a hardliner clique of the Army. The emperor's staff hid the records behind bookcase that covered a secret compartment in their office.

It seems probable to me that the real reason for the hardline clique’s diehard attitude wasn’t any extremist view of what it meant to be Japanese, but a psychological need to push back against profoundly feared loss of the privilege and prestige for the military class within the Japanese society, which needs to be hidden behind a false if strident pretense of advocating for collective honor or good.

In that sense the military cliques have more in common with January 6 gang than meets the eye.

My take would be they were wannabee samurai with the suicidal ideations that implies.

They managed to get the Japanese constitution revised (in the 1930s) with what seemed to be a very sensible codicil. "The Army and Navy representatives to the Imperial Cabinet will be active duty officers."

The catch is the two organizations could send their man to a different job if they wanted to. That would bring the current cabinet down. So any cabinet was hostage to the approval of the Army and/or Navy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%ABj%C5%8D_incident

(August 10, 2023 at 9:09 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%ABj%C5%8D_incident

That was pretty much inevitable.

(August 10, 2023 at 8:52 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: It seems probable to me that the real reason for the hardline clique’s diehard attitude wasn’t any extremist view of what it meant to be Japanese, but a psychological need to push back against profoundly feared loss of the privilege and prestige for the military class within the Japanese society, which needs to be hidden behind a false if strident pretense of advocating for collective honor or good.

In that sense the military cliques have more in common with January 6 gang than meets the eye.

They pretended to worship the emperor as a god, but when their god said "Take up your cross and follow me" they thought he was too woke.  So they were exactly like today's MAGA Xians.

true ideological idiot fanaticism are usually for the mindless pions. those leading the charge are often motivated by baser motives, such as protecting accustomed privilege and prerogative of their self perceived class, which they then rationalize as selfless striving for the greater ideological good of the larger group that also include the pions.

(August 10, 2023 at 9:05 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: My take would be they were wannabee samurai with the suicidal ideations that implies.

They managed to get the Japanese constitution revised (in the 1930s) with what seemed to be a very sensible codicil. "The Army and Navy representatives to the Imperial Cabinet will be active duty officers."

The catch is the two organizations could send their man to a different job if they wanted to. That would bring the current cabinet down. So any cabinet was hostage to the approval of the Army and/or Navy.

'wannabee' nothing. They WERE samurai.

Boru

no they were not.  samurai were a hereditary nobility abolished during Meiji revolution.    most of the more fanatical Japanese army officer class were from lower to middle class families and not descendants of hereditary samurai families.

a similar phenomenon is also observed in nazi germany, where the most fanatical die hards tend to be from lower abs middle class backgrounds and not from Prussian junker aristocracy.

i suspect it has to do with the fact that traditional aristocratic families had better access to a broader and more liberal education, and also being already privileged, didn’t feel they owed an debt to the new militaristic order for enloftening their social status.