(January 6, 2024 at 4:23 am)JJoseph Wrote: E.g. Houses, Trees, Planets etc begin to exist and have a cause. So does the Universe, which brings us to Step 2.

Trees and planets had a natural cause, so why wouldn't the universe have a natural cause?

The second thing is that the Universe always existed (the big bang is "only" the expansion of the universe), which, again, had a natural cause since there is no evidence to show otherwise.

And then of course the special pleading in the Kalam that it ignores to ask what caused god.

Let me give you an Analogy: Your Father built a Wonderful House with a Beautiful Garden, and left you and your brother and sister alone, let's say to fight a War with an Enemy before coming back.

Can you and your siblings correctly deduce that your House and the Garden attached to it must have had a Builder and a Designer or not? That is the question. I say, yes you can and should.

Atheists say, "no, it's all God Magic" or who knows whatever else they say. We say, every Building requires a Builder, every Garden requires a Creator etc, therefore this Home/Garden had a Builder/Creator.

Atheists, confused by Enemy Propaganda from the Father's Enemy who hates the Father, and thus His Children also, live like Poor, Lost, Orphaned Children, until they finally recognize the Truth.

(January 6, 2024 at 7:44 am)JJoseph Wrote: Can you and your siblings correctly deduce that your House and the Garden attached to it must have had a Builder and a Designer or not? That is the question. I say, yes you can and should.

Your analogy is false. When people see a house they know it had a builder because a house is a nonliving thing - there are no baby houses and natural selection does not work on houses.

Attempting to argue a god(s) into existence is a waste of time.

Can you answer the question?

Can you and your flock prove jebus died for my sins, without using your stupid book?

Csn you point to where all the other gods are false and yours is real, and what confirms that?

It's not, because the Highest Possible Happiness, Eternal Joy forever and ever depends upon it. Thus, even applying Secular Philosopher Jeremy Bentham's Utilitarian Principles, if Eternal Joy exists, it is worth attaining at any cost.

Fake Messiah. Natural Selection is just a word Evolutionists use to make it seem as if their Theory has some credence. All natural selection really means is that the most fit monkeys will survive. It says nothing about monkeys birthing men, i.e. people, nor about Humans and Chimpanzees allegedly having an Ape-Human Common Ancestor, which is an absurdity. Monkeyboy Darwin can go live in a jungle and have sex with monkeys if he really thinks there are no natural and insurmountable barriers between Human Beings and Apes.

I remember a BBC article contain the following absurdity: "At this time (some alleged millions or billions of years ago, THE WORLD WAS REALLY THE PLANET OF THE APES". This is the absurdity with which Marx, Darwin, Herzl etc hope to de-Christianize you so that they can one day dominate you, as their Goyim Slaves. Read the Pharisaic Book called the Talmud to understand what "Goyim" means, and you might get Red-Pilled on the subject. That's what we in Christendom are preventing, while Zionists heartlessly kill babies in Gaza. And when we Pro-Life Christians warned you long ago that cheapening human life was wrong and would lead to Grave Evil, you didn't want to listen.

Anyway, to continue the Analogy, it would be like one kid telling the other: "you see these stones lying there? Well, those stones evolved into buildings". That is the absurdity of Atheism. Which hardly anyone can 100% commit to, and which is probably going to die out in 25-30 years anyway. But too many Precious Souls will be lost before that time runs out, and hence the Mission of Christ's Church to save them from Eternal Fire must go on. "We Love, because He Loved us First", as the Word says.

(January 6, 2024 at 8:43 am)no one Wrote: Can you answer the question?

Can you and your flock prove jebus died for my sins, without using your stupid book?

Csn you point to where all the other gods are false and yours is real, and what confirms that?

Yes, we can. Consult the Secular Historian Josephus who writes of it. Josephus was a Jewish Historian and highly respected by the Romans.

Although some modern Liberals will tell you it is "fake", St. Eusebius, St. Ambrose, St. Jerome and many other writers have proven otherwise.

The passage finds even some contemporary scholarly defenders. Next, consult the Shroud of Turin, the famous prophecy in Isaiah 53 etc etc.

(January 6, 2024 at 8:48 am)JJoseph Wrote: Fake Messiah. Natural Selection is just a word Evolutionists use to make it seem as if their Theory has some credence. All natural selection really means is that the most fit monkeys will survive. It says nothing about monkeys birthing men, i.e. people, nor about Humans and Chimpanzees allegedly having an Ape-Human Common Ancestor, which is an absurdity. Monkeyboy Darwin can go live in a jungle and have sex with monkeys if he really thinks there are no natural and insurmountable barriers between Human Beings and Apes.

Go and tell that to William Lane Craig on whose work you made this topic maybe he can teach you how to understand evolution.

Btw it seems that JJ is a sock of that Catholic from India who got banned a few months ago.

You mean the horseshit that was debunked like 40 years ago?

Show me this proof, without using your book.

And you still did not answer the question.

(January 6, 2024 at 8:48 am)JJoseph Wrote: It's not, because the Highest Possible Happiness, Eternal Joy forever and ever depends upon it. Thus, even applying Secular Philosopher Jeremy Bentham's Utilitarian Principles, if Eternal Joy exists, it is worth attaining at any cost.

Fake Messiah. Natural Selection is just a word Evolutionists use to make it seem as if their Theory has some credence. All natural selection really means is that the most fit monkeys will survive. It says nothing about monkeys birthing men, i.e. people, nor about Humans and Chimpanzees allegedly having an Ape-Human Common Ancestor, which is an absurdity. Monkeyboy Darwin can go live in a jungle and have sex with monkeys if he really thinks there are no natural and insurmountable barriers between Human Beings and Apes.

I remember a BBC article contain the following absurdity: "At this time (some alleged millions or billions of years ago, THE WORLD WAS REALLY THE PLANET OF THE APES". This is the absurdity with which Marx, Darwin, Herzl etc hope to de-Christianize you so that they can one day dominate you, as their Goyim Slaves. Read the Pharisaic Book called the Talmud to understand what "Goyim" means, and you might get Red-Pilled on the subject. That's what we in Christendom are preventing, while Zionists heartlessly kill babies in Gaza. And when we Pro-Life Christians warned you long ago that cheapening human life was wrong and would lead to Grave Evil, you didn't want to listen.

Anyway, to continue the Analogy, it would be like one kid telling the other: "you see these stones lying there? Well, those stones evolved into buildings". That is the absurdity of Atheism. Which hardly anyone can 100% commit to, and which is probably going to die out in 25-30 years anyway. But too many Precious Souls will be lost before that time runs out, and hence the Mission of Christ's Church to save them from Eternal Fire must go on. "We Love, because He Loved us First", as the Word says.

If you really think that evolution means than monkeys gave birth to men then you clearly do not understand the first thing about it.