(January 17, 2024 at 9:59 pm)no one Wrote: god is 100% make believe. I don't care which culture invented it, every single one is pure unadulterated malarkey.

Respectfully, I can't possibly see how a holy photo of my deity FSM steering a pirate ship with his first mate Darth Vader on a unicycle playing a flaming bagpipe could be in any way interpreted as malarky.

One of my favorite summations of theistic religion actually comes from an atheistic religion.  That gods are a genuine misapprehension of nature.  Of the power that nature held (and still holds) over us...sure, but also, left to our own devices..which is to say without dogma or coercive institutions...we'd find everything in religion that we find in nature.  Amusement and tedium.  Joy, and also misery.  Hope, and also despair.  Motivation to great acts, and detestable ones.  The affirmation of life and it's destruction.  A wide angled glance at the totality of the historic religious landscape seems to confirm this notion.

That our sense of the wholeness or connectedness of all of life is warranted, and now..well demonstrated by our shared ancestry and the complex and quantifiable interactions between species and within environments.  That a commonality of good, whether we choose to conceptualize this as relative or objective, is both possible and present between all alike things.  That our physical impermanence is modified.  In the lasting effects of our actions.  In the quality of our character.  In the memories of those that knew us.  In the form of our children.  That the world as it is is not all it could..or even should..be, and that we seek to effect change in it.  That the totality of this relationship takes uncommon skill to put into words but is recognizable as such by all with that shared experience.

There are alot of good hypothesis as to how gods got attached.  Maybe it's pure accident.  We forgot along the way that we were talking about our granny, not a goddess.  Maybe it's psychological aptness.  We respond well to hierarchal structures and we place a premium on personal authorities.  Maybe it's a socio-economic effect.  Theistic societies outproduced and outperformed their then-current and now-defunct rivals. Maybe we embrace the power of end. In all of this, the most delicious bit..to me...is that we don't need gods to explain any of it, and existent gods add nothing to the thing itself.

(January 17, 2024 at 9:52 pm)Ahriman Wrote:

(January 17, 2024 at 4:30 pm)Gwaithmir Wrote: I have no objection to believing in a god as long as proof based upon a rational standard of knowledge is forthcoming. Is that too much to ask? But surely theists can’t expect me to adopt their beliefs on the basis of what has been presented thus far. Every “proof” I’ve heard and every piece of evidence I’ve seen for the existence of god(s) is easily countered by rational evidence and arguments to the contrary. No convincing evidence for the existence of any deity has ever emerged. But I’m more than willing to listen to theistic arguments or view theistic evidence as long as cross-examination is permitted. As conditions now stand, theology rests far more on superstition and faith than upon facts and reason.

Lol right, because you don't want it to be true. And yes, you are asking too much.

Yeah, right, wanting to have good standards of evidence, and valid and sound logic to support one's beliefs is "asking too much".

So, lets say you are presented with a new supernatural claim. By what method do you use in order to determine if you should believe it or not?

What method did you use to determine which gods you should believe exist, and which don't exist?

One of the simplest paths toward atheism is realizing the same reasoning you use to dismiss other gods can also be applied to dismiss yours.

(January 18, 2024 at 2:22 pm)Foxaèr Wrote: One of the simplest paths toward atheism is realizing the same reasoning you use to dismiss other gods can also be applied to dismiss yours.

Simple, perhaps. Frequently taken? No.

(January 18, 2024 at 2:22 pm)Foxaèr Wrote: One of the simplest paths toward atheism is realizing the same reasoning you use to dismiss other gods can also be applied to dismiss yours.

Special pleading and confirmation bias are a bitch,

(January 14, 2024 at 12:00 am)snowtracks Wrote: They would be convinced if the universe was created. Ref: *

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*Big Bang Theory: Evolution of Our Universe - Universe Today

You do understand that our current model of the big bang doesn't posit a creation of matter, just the expansion of the vast majority (there are spontaneously created particles) of it from an infinitely dense singularity to the state it's in* today.

*And look at the absolute state of it! Shocking

(January 17, 2024 at 1:09 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Somber and joyless was being in the 6th grade and music class consisting of learning funeral dirges for the people who wanted the Catholic funeral mass for their family member to be sung by children.

***Come to his aid ooohhhh saints of god, hasten to meet him, angels of the lord...

And other happy stuff like that.

The nun who taught us was Sr. Joann..pronounced JoAhn...who was a tiny little thing who looked like a half-starved crow.  She was so damned excited to teach us these songs of death.

Having to learn Faith of our Fathers in primary school. Such a morbid and depressing song, especially when being taught to six year olds.

(January 18, 2024 at 2:19 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:

(January 17, 2024 at 9:52 pm)Ahriman Wrote: Lol right, because you don't want it to be true. And yes, you are asking too much.

Yeah, right, wanting to have good standards of evidence, and valid and sound logic to support one's beliefs is "asking too much".

So, lets say you are presented with a new supernatural claim. By what method do you use in order to determine if you should believe it or not?

What method did you use to determine which gods you should believe exist, and which don't exist?

I think they could all exist. I'm not picky.

I think Wonder Woman and I played hide the salami. I'm not picky either.