(November 13, 2024 at 4:29 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(November 13, 2024 at 2:09 pm)TheWhiteMarten Wrote: Such as what?

Helping the poor as your Jesus preached, for starters.

The two are not mutually exclusive, and the church/Christian remains the world's largest charity segment.

No, it isn't...though it is a massive welfare queen.

(November 14, 2024 at 1:43 am)TheWhiteMarten Wrote:

(November 13, 2024 at 4:29 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Helping the poor as your Jesus preached, for starters.

The two are not mutually exclusive, and the church/Christian remains the world's largest charity segment.

Jesus didn't say "be the world's largest charity segment" [citation needed]. He pretty much said that men who die rich are like camels going through a needle's eye, getting to heaven. Yet these amazingly big Christian churches garnering millions, and in the RCC billions, annually, spend huge amounts of money on "Crystal Cathedrals" and diocesan seats, even as they preach to others on how to get into heaven.

If your church is spending money for fancy stuff, that's money they're not spending helping the needy. Maybe build ten houses instead of one cathedral?

You'll find no shortage of citations, especially from religious organizations when they feel the need to threaten government sponsored childcare over uppity sheep telling the cops about pedo priests. Ultimately, it's the same type of claim as magic book being the best selling of all time. Repeated endlessly by authoritarian nitwits who want to flood the zone with shit.

But sure, if we ignore gos and all the ways that gos fund religious ngos...and all of the ways that secular ngos fund religious ngos, and if we count all churches as one church, and if we allow for double counting charitable contributions -to- given churches....on the third tuesday of the fourth month when the moon is full you can squint at it and say it's the biggest. In mere reality they don't hold a candle to gos or the largest ngos.

All of this before we start to talk about the terms and conditions of their alleged charity. End of the day though, it's cool. More charity is better than less charity. It'd be easier to be so cool about it if they weren't constantly extorting parishioners and funders while lying their balls off about what charity they actually do as an excuse for what charity they are manifestly not doing..whether by secular standards or the purported thought droppings of a middle eastern shaman.

(November 14, 2024 at 1:41 am)TheWhiteMarten Wrote:

(November 13, 2024 at 4:08 pm)Sheldon Wrote: Anything that society is in practical want or need of, obviously. You're a theist, surely imagination is not something you lack?

The church was generally the one who provided that as well; the cathedrals you are referring to were largely built by local guilds and communities coming together and wanting to build a shrine to the uniting thread that binded them, to glorify God's kingdom on Earth.

There are plenty of scientific reasons as to why this is good for a society as well, so I'm just not sure what would have been necessarily more practical.

(bold mine)

Horseshit. Cathedrals were built by the Church so bishops would have a more central location from which to fleece their flocks. This form of economic rapine started with Constantine and hasn't changed.

Boru

(November 14, 2024 at 1:43 am)TheWhiteMarten Wrote:

(November 13, 2024 at 4:29 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Helping the poor as your Jesus preached, for starters.

The two are not mutually exclusive, and the church/Christian remains the world's largest charity segment.

What the Church does is more investment than charity.

Boru

(November 14, 2024 at 1:41 am)TheWhiteMarten Wrote:

(November 13, 2024 at 4:08 pm)Sheldon Wrote: Anything that society is in practical want or need of, obviously. You're a theist, surely imagination is not something you lack?

The church was generally the one who provided that as well; the cathedrals you are referring to were largely built by local guilds and communities coming together and wanting to build a shrine to the uniting thread that binded them, to glorify God's kingdom on Earth.

1) What churches provided varies wildly, so this is a rather facile generalisation. 
2) I referred to no cathedrals specifically of course, but how they were funded rather misses my point. 
3) I made no comment on what motivated people to build such edifices, so this doesn't really address my point either. 

Quote:There are plenty of scientific reasons as to why this is good for a society as well, 

I am dubious, especially since all you have offered is a bare unevidenced claim, but this again, has little to do with my point. 

Quote:so I'm just not sure what would have been necessarily more practical.

Than vastly costly shrines to an an imaginary deity or deities? Maybe I was wrong, and your imagination does not extend beyond imagining a deity. I can imagine endless possibilities of the application of such resources that would have been of a more practical help in providing for basic want and necessity.

(November 14, 2024 at 1:43 am)TheWhiteMarten Wrote:

(November 13, 2024 at 4:29 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Helping the poor as your Jesus preached, for starters.

The two are not mutually exclusive, and the church/Christian remains the world's largest charity segment.

No indeed they are not, but imagine how more might have been done to help alleviate poverty, using the vast wealth and resources spent on such buildings, not to mention the unimaginable wealth institutions like the RCC have sequestered away. Religions have held enormous power wealth and influence in the past of course, since most people were religious, so we don't have a level playing field to compare secularist, humanist and atheist altruism.

(November 14, 2024 at 2:16 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(November 14, 2024 at 1:43 am)TheWhiteMarten Wrote: The two are not mutually exclusive, and the church/Christian remains the world's largest charity segment.

these amazingly big Christian churches garnering millions, and in the RCC billions, annually, spend huge amounts of money on "Crystal Cathedrals" and diocesan seats, even as they preach to others on how to get into heaven.

If your church is spending money for fancy stuff, that's money they're not spending helping the needy. Maybe build ten houses instead of one cathedral?

Exactly, this is it in a nutshell.

They'll tell you that they run in the red to give poor people socks, hoping that you'll conflate their expenses with their charity. Meanwhile, they tell their own people that they can't afford to perform the necessary magic and rituals anymore because of all these boys seducing the witchdoctors. Sorry for your souls, suckers, your kids are gay and we've got lawyers bills.