(September 18, 2026 at 2:59 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(September 18, 2026 at 2:53 pm)Jal Wrote: Correct. Why would Yahweh allow an innocent child to suffer?
And how could Paul be any more clear, when he said that we all sinned in Adam?

That might be the most idiotic justification for both infant damnation and child murder I’ve ever heard.

Boru

(September 18, 2026 at 10:28 am)Jal Wrote: Already on this thread I have taken steps to show my theology is more faithful to the Bible than traditional Christianity, 

(September 18, 2026 at 3:31 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Sure, why not.  It’s the hand of god that keeps you from jumping to the moon and also the hand of god that pushes you down to your death when you fall out of a window.

That’s some man you’ve got yourself there.  A real catch.

(September 18, 2026 at 10:48 am)Jal Wrote:

(September 18, 2026 at 10:31 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Your explanation of why you think panpsychism saves the trinity is literally the modalist heresy.  It’s not faithful to scripture, it rejects scripture.  That’s why it was declared heretical.

No, it's not modalism. Modalism is mono-volitional, it's one person unequivocally. In the Garden of Gethsemane, Jesus said:
"Not my will, Father, but thy will be done."
To paraphrase
"Not my volition, Father, but thy volition be done."
Here we see two distinct volitions, contrary to modalism's idea of one person (one volition) manifested three ways.

Ironically, the traditional Trinity is implicitly modalistic because it defines God as an indivisible Person  - obviously indivisible into three opposing parts/volitions. That's one reason why even Millard J Erickson admitted that the traditional Trinity is logically "absurd from the human standpoint" (Millard J. Erickson, Christian Theology (Grand Rapids: Baker Books, 2001, reprint), p. 367). 

Note that Millard J Erickson's book, in its hey day, was the most prominent systematic theology textbook in seminaries worldwide. (Possibly still holds that ranking). 

After 2000 years, panpsychism finally ESCAPES modalism. How so? Self-locomotion by free will means: 
self-locomotion by free volition. 
Each particle is volitional. This is multi-volitionality at its zenith. It is the very ANTITHESIS of modalism. It perfectly explains why Christ was able to say:
"Not my volition, Father, but thy volition be done."

(September 18, 2026 at 2:55 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: If we’re talking about divine justice, I’m looking at 0% as a legitimate number. If we’re talking about earthly justice, 50% sounds about right.

Quote:As for ‘solid ground’, the Bible frequently describes God as merciful. Either he is or he isn’t.

(September 18, 2026 at 3:31 pm)Jal Wrote:

(September 18, 2026 at 2:59 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: That might be the most idiotic justification for both infant damnation and child murder I’ve ever heard.

Boru

How so? Don't just assert your conclusion. Argue it.

(September 18, 2026 at 3:41 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(September 18, 2026 at 3:31 pm)Jal Wrote: How so? Don't just assert your conclusion. Argue it.

A few things.

1. It relies on the ‘sins of the father’ nonsense.

2. It presupposes the existence of God - more nonsense.

3. Paul was a hate-filled lunatic.

Boru

(September 18, 2026 at 3:41 pm)Jal Wrote:

(September 18, 2026 at 2:55 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: If we’re talking about divine justice, I’m looking at 0% as a legitimate number. If we’re talking about earthly justice, 50% sounds about right.

I don't believe in double-standards.  There is only "justice". There is not "human justice versus divine justice."

Admittedly humans are imperfect in their efforts to administer justice - for example they can't read minds (i.e. listen to brain waves) like Yahweh  can, so they can't properly evaluate motive, intent, brainwashing/indoctrination, etc.

Quote:As for ‘solid ground’, the Bible frequently describes God as merciful. Either he is or he isn’t.

Merciful necessarily means 100% NO JUSTICE? That's a non-sequitur.

(September 18, 2026 at 3:44 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(September 18, 2026 at 3:41 pm)Jal Wrote: I don't believe in double-standards.  There is only "justice". There is not "human justice versus divine justice."

Admittedly humans are imperfect in their efforts to administer justice - for example they can't read minds (i.e. listen to brain waves) like Yahweh  can, so they can't properly evaluate motive, intent, brainwashing/indoctrination, etc.


Merciful necessarily means 100% NO JUSTICE? That's a non-sequitur.

Divine mercy precludes divine justice and vice-versa. If God is just, he cannot be merciful. Humans, on the other hand, have figured out how to temper justice with mercy.

Boru