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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
October 15, 2026 at 4:35 pm
(October 15, 2026 at 4:23 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: (October 15, 2026 at 4:03 pm)AngelThMan Wrote: That's a tu quoque fallacy. It doesn't address my question. Fallacy? I asked a question! Answer it. It's easy: it's never.ever right to kill a baby!
Now you try it:
If your god asked you to kill a baby, would it be the right thing to do? Is it ever ok to disobey your gods commands, by the way?
Do you know what a tu quoque fallacy is?? It's a whataboutism. You never answered my question. Just asked another question. Look it up
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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
October 15, 2026 at 5:14 pm
(October 15, 2026 at 4:07 pm)AngelThMan Wrote: (October 15, 2026 at 4:03 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Of course I don’t agree. Be less stupid.
Boru
What objective standard would make anything right or wrong without God?
What objective standard would make anything right or wrong WITH God?
Boru
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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
October 15, 2026 at 5:14 pm
AngelThMan Wrote:What objective standard would make anything right or wrong without God?
Right or wrong for what? You are missing the context.
You are talking about the rules of the game but not the game itself. So-called god's standard for right or wrong applies to how to get to heaven but not how to get by in society (unless that society happens to be theocratic).
And people's main motivation for how to behave is to get by in the society, and they do this by behaving in the way they were raised and by obeying rules of the society, like laws.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
October 15, 2026 at 5:16 pm
(This post was last modified: October 15, 2026 at 5:20 pm by BrianSoddingBoru4.)
(October 15, 2026 at 4:35 pm)AngelThMan Wrote: (October 15, 2026 at 4:23 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: Fallacy? I asked a question! Answer it. It's easy: it's never.ever right to kill a baby!
Now you try it:
If your god asked you to kill a baby, would it be the right thing to do? Is it ever ok to disobey your gods commands, by the way?
Do you know what a tu quoque fallacy is?? It's a whataboutism. You never answered my question. Just asked another question. Look it up
How can it be a tu quoque fallacy when it wasn’t presented as part of an argument? Tu quoque refers to hypocrisy or personal history to invalidate an argument.
If Deese had said, ‘But there was that time you killed a baby because your God told you to’, THAT would be tu quoque. He didn’t, so it wasn’t.
Boru
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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
October 15, 2026 at 7:41 pm
(October 15, 2026 at 5:14 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (October 15, 2026 at 4:07 pm)AngelThMan Wrote: What objective standard would make anything right or wrong without God?
What objective standard would make anything right or wrong WITH God?
Boru
Perhaps more to the point, how would we know what is objectively right or wrong? The OP doesn't specify what God he's talking about but there are none that I know of who have clearly passed that information down. Every major religion I have ever heard of has multiple sects for that reason. All have many followers who find limited agreement of what is right or wrong.
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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
October 15, 2026 at 8:53 pm
Without peanuts would people still be allergic to them?
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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
October 15, 2026 at 9:24 pm
(October 15, 2026 at 4:07 pm)AngelThMan Wrote: (October 15, 2026 at 4:03 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Of course I don’t agree. Be less stupid.
Boru
What objective standard would make anything right or wrong without God?
Why do you need a set of allegedly objective rules to keep you from fucking your neighbor's wife and killing their kids?
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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
October 15, 2026 at 9:27 pm
(October 15, 2026 at 4:27 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: (October 15, 2026 at 4:07 pm)AngelThMan Wrote: What objective standard would make anything right or wrong without God? ANY objective standard.
WITH your god it's just another SUBJECTIVE standard, By definition.
You don't know the definition of objective morals, do you? (my bold)
They never do. Their pastor/priest/shaman/witch doctor/whatever told them their gawd's rules were objective, and like good parrots, they spew that back out.
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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
October 15, 2026 at 11:44 pm
(October 15, 2026 at 2:34 pm)AngelThMan Wrote: If there's no God, nothing is objectively right or wrong or evil. Do you agree? No I do not agree
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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
October 15, 2026 at 11:45 pm
(October 15, 2026 at 2:34 pm)AngelThMan Wrote: If there's no God, nothing is objectively right or wrong or evil. Do you agree?
The presence or absence of a god is irrelevant. "Objective morality" appears to be an oxymoron, because morality is at its heart a value judgement and judgements are subjective determinations of one sentient observer, or intersubjective determinations of a group of observers.
Divine morality is just as subjective as morality without gods. True objectivity would require a measurable standard that is external to all sentient beings, and would be the same whether or not a god is one of those beings.
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