(February 25, 2012 at 6:43 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(February 25, 2012 at 6:41 pm)Melanbee Wrote: Both the CDC and the WHO agree that the first line of defense is hand hygiene. Vaccinations are helpful but not as effective as hygiene.

Ha! Take that!

Unlike my dear sister here...I didn't post that as a "Ha! Take that!". I was just simply stating a fact.

I do not stand strongly on either side. I see positives and negatives for both sides. All I ask is that when people debate this topic that they think about the social ramifications of enforcing the public to have a invasive "procedure" done to THEIR body. This opens up a whole new bag of tricks for the government to enforce if we allow them. Also, think about the moral implications as well as the general health of the world.

Invasive procedure? Way to use scarier words than could ever be offered with a straight face. :holds out his arm and rolls up his sleeve:, "damned invasive vaccinations!"

You know we already do require these vaccinations (as Shell mentioned, to send a kid to school) so the slippery slope argument isn't very compelling to me. Again, these people are not happy with this. They want to dump their little test tubes into the GP.

Smarter and hotter than your sister. I like.

(February 25, 2012 at 6:53 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Invasive procedure? Way to use scarier words than could ever be offered with a straight face. :holds out his arm and rolls up his sleeve:, "damned invasive vaccinations!"

You know we already do require these vaccinations (as Shell mentioned, to send a kid to school). Again, these people are not happy with this. They want to dump their little test tubes into the GP.

We require it, but there are ways around it...religious, medical and other reasons allow you to not vaccinate. So, you do not have to vaccinate to send your child to school. Not to mention...homeschooling is an up and coming choice.

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(February 25, 2012 at 6:55 pm)5thHorseman Wrote: Smarter and hotter than your sister. I like.

Why thank you! But I adore my sister and think she is incredibly intelligent and WAY hotter than me. Of course, I am old.

Do Jehovahs witnesses get out of vaccinations?

(February 25, 2012 at 6:59 pm)Melanbee Wrote: We require it, but there are ways around it...religious, medical and other reasons allow you to not vaccinate. So, you do not have to vaccinate to send your child to school. Not to mention...homeschooling is an up and coming choice.

In other words you do, unless you weasel your way around it. This isn't something that I can get behind, know what I mean?

(February 25, 2012 at 7:02 pm)5thHorseman Wrote: Do Jehovahs witnesses get out of vaccinations?

Anyone can get out of it. I know someone who doesn't vaccinate because she doesn't like the risks that are involved. Her kids are at the same school as my kids. So apparently it can not be taken too seriously. Plus, once they are in school...they never check those records again. And there are plenty of vaccinations that are given after the age of five.

(February 25, 2012 at 6:48 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Excuse me for arguing that we shouldn't just roll over because mother nature is trying to off us. Or for mentioning that mother nature absolutely will punish you for my bad choices, and vice versa.

You're not excused for your hysterics.

Quote:Or we could vaccinate.

We already do that. We just don't force people to have them.

Quote:What we can when we can? Like vaccinating?

Yes, see above.

Quote:Absolutely, unless you kill it entirely by way of massive campaigns of vaccination.

Which is clearly possible even without mandatory vaccinations.

Quote:Or we could just kill it by way of massive campaigns of vaccination.

Again, clearly possible without mandatory vaccinations.

Quote: That we could prick a prick with a needle one time and potentially forestall or avoid massive loss of life does.

No, it does not. Your opinion does not give you the right to dictate what another does with their own body.

Quote:Yet we mandate what people can and can't do (even with regards to their own bodies) especially when it concerns others all the time. This is different how?

Have you ever heard me agree with any such mandates? It's a tenuous connection at best, anyway. Telling someone they cannot rape someone else prevents a violent crime. Forcing a vaccination prevents something that can otherwise be prevented and can also cause the person to get the disease rather than develop immunity to it.

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(February 25, 2012 at 6:53 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Invasive procedure? Way to use scarier words than could ever be offered with a straight face. :holds out his arm and rolls up his sleeve:, "damned invasive vaccinations!"

Don't be a douchebag. It is invasive. Look up the word. It is entering your body. It opens up your bloodstream to pathogens. It is by definition invasive.

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(February 25, 2012 at 6:55 pm)5thHorseman Wrote: Smarter and hotter than your sister. I like.

Not for you. *whips out spray bottle and squirts 5th*

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(February 25, 2012 at 7:08 pm)Rhythm Wrote: In other words you do, unless you weasel your way around it. This isn't something that I can get behind, know what I mean?

What about medical reasons? Do you consider that weaseling?

The only disease we eradicated was through strongly coerced vaccinations (the governments of the time might have laughed at the idea of even needing to write a mandate to force these vaccinations (which they did). Mandates weren't a huge issue here because most of us have brains in our heads. They snuck the damn vaccine into some people without even telling them what it was in many places.

Again, it isn't my opinion that vaccination against pathogens is a good idea, or that immunization works best when it is complete, or that our government legislates such matters. So please stop framing it as such.

It's a tenous connection until someone is litigating a carrier because their little girl died or was severely injured. Then you can expect precedents to be trotted out daily until the issue is resolved.

"Myth: Vaccines cause the illnesses they’re supposed to prevent.
Fact: This myth almost always surfaces during flu season because other respiratory illnesses are common at this time. In regards to the influenza vaccines, neither the inactivated influenza vaccine (the flu shot) nor the live attenuated influenza vaccine (nasal spray) can cause a person to develop influenza.

In regards to the other vaccines on the schedule approved by the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the American Academy of Pediatrics and the American Academy of Family Physicians, the chance of contracting the disease a vaccine has been proven to protect against is minimal to impossible. For vaccines that contain live weakened viruses, such as the chickenpox or MMR, a patient may develop a very mild illness that would be much less severe if the person did not receive the vaccination and contracted the disease.. "
http://www.texaschildrens.org/carecenter...myths.aspx

Come again?

Nope, it's medical reasons that lead me to suggest vaccinations, and if you have medical reasons for not getting them then what can be done? Not even close to the same issue.

(February 25, 2012 at 7:19 pm)Rhythm Wrote: "Myth: Vaccines cause the illnesses they’re supposed to prevent.
Fact: This myth almost always surfaces during flu season because other respiratory illnesses are common at this time. In regards to the influenza vaccines, neither the inactivated influenza vaccine (the flu shot) nor the live attenuated influenza vaccine (nasal spray) can cause a person to develop influenza.

In regards to the other vaccines on the schedule approved by the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the American Academy of Pediatrics and the American Academy of Family Physicians, the chance of contracting the disease a vaccine has been proven to protect against is minimal to impossible. For vaccines that contain live weakened viruses, such as the chickenpox or MMR, a patient may develop a very mild illness that would be much less severe if the person did not receive the vaccination and contracted the disease.. "
http://www.texaschildrens.org/carecenter...myths.aspx

Come again?

Oh, Texas Childrens. How cute. Tough luck that my buddy just got the chicken pox from being vaccinated. Try again.

I realize that is hearsay. However, it is documented that 1% of people who get the vaccination get the disease.