i am an atheist .i am the first of my Hindu family who left Hinduism for sake of truth.i was confident that science has the ultimate power to explicate everything but life is so complex to comprehend.still there are certain things which incapacitate science to explain it.
for example if you ponder over the sacredness of kin relations one could gather that it is engraved upon our minds by someone.
the other day my atheist friend argued with me over yahoo that its not divine rather evolution thought us so.
on a point we reached to the subject of incest .he said,"men are wired for sex.they want it constantly and with multiple partners.evolution has produced this.it is natural"
in reply to that i asked him why evolution did not produce willingness for incest.
he replied," we are not wired for incest because breeding with people too genetically close to you increases the chances of recessive genes manifesting and producing a child with a genetic disease "
i asked him," it means one can approach his mother or sister with the condoms ?"
he went offline.
so such things make me sure that things are not so plain and superficial as we take .
" Heard Melodies Are Sweet But Those Unheard Are Sweeter "

(March 5, 2012 at 2:00 am)arjun Wrote: i am an atheist .i am the first of my Hindu family who left Hinduism for sake of truth.i was confident that science has the ultimate power to explicate everything but life is so complex to comprehend.still there are certain things which incapacitate science to explain it.
for example if you ponder over the sacredness of kin relations one could gather that it is engraved upon our minds by someone.
the other day my atheist friend argued with me over yahoo that its not divine rather evolution thought us so.
on a point we reached to the subject of incest .he said,"men are wired for sex.they want it constantly and with multiple partners.evolution has produced this.it is natural"
in reply to that i asked him why evolution did not produce willingness for incest.
he replied," we are not wired for incest because breeding with people too genetically close to you increases the chances of recessive genes manifesting and producing a child with a genetic disease "
i asked him," it means one can approach his mother or sister with the condoms ?"
he went offline.
so such things make me sure that things are not so plain and superficial as we take .
" Heard Melodies Are Sweet But Those Unheard Are Sweeter "

Actually, there is a pretty simple explanation for a person's aversion to incest - the Westermarck effect.

(March 5, 2012 at 3:15 am)genkaus Wrote: Actually, there is a pretty simple explanation for a person's aversion to incest - the Westermarck effect.

This. The higher rate of birth defects caused by incest are likely why we evolved not to like it. I don't see anything morally wrong with having consensual sex with family members, provided they don't plan to have children. If nobody is being hurt, the relationship is a happy one and they're not having children why would it be wrong?

In fact, incest was pretty common upto biblical times (Jesus who was god himself made his mother pregnant with him).
And then we have 2 Peter 2:7-8, Genesis 19:15, Genesis 19:32-36, etc.

(March 5, 2012 at 3:30 am)Tempus Wrote:

(March 5, 2012 at 3:15 am)genkaus Wrote: Actually, there is a pretty simple explanation for a person's aversion to incest - the Westermarck effect.

If nobody is being hurt, the relationship is a happy one and they're not having children why would it be wrong?

are you serious you can ever imagine to go to your mother for sex ?
you know what mother means to a child ?
i am stunned to read your comments.

Atheism !

(March 5, 2012 at 5:00 am)arjun Wrote: are you serious you can ever imagine to go to your mother for sex ?
you know what mother means to a child ?
i am stunned to read your comments.

He wasn't talking about mother/child relationships, but 2 grown consenting adults, but that has nothing to do with atheism, its one personal view on individual rights and liberties. Nevertheless you say:

Quote:Atheism !

I'll dispell your confusion: Atheists are people that don't believe in any god or gods PERIOD. Anything else is personal ideas and philosophies that aren't related at all with the fact of one being atheist.

(March 5, 2012 at 5:00 am)arjun Wrote: are you serious you can ever imagine to go to your mother for sex ?
you know what mother means to a child ?
i am stunned to read your comments.

Atheism !

Actually, I find comments like these more dangerous and disturbing than if someone had expressed a sexual interest in their mother.

To be perfectly clear, I find incest to be as disgusting and abhorrent as necrophilia or coprophilia. But I do not presume that my emotional reaction gives me the right to pronounce any moral condemnation of the act. Any moral condemnation must come from a rational evaluation act.

(March 5, 2012 at 2:00 am)arjun Wrote:

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i am an atheist .i am the first of my Hindu family who left Hinduism for sake of truth.i was confident that science has the ultimate power to explicate everything but life is so complex to comprehend.still there are certain things which incapacitate science to explain it.
for example if you ponder over the sacredness of kin relations one could gather that it is engraved upon our minds by someone.
the other day my atheist friend argued with me over yahoo that its not divine rather evolution thought us so.
on a point we reached to the subject of incest .he said,"men are wired for sex.they want it constantly and with multiple partners.evolution has produced this.it is natural"
in reply to that i asked him why evolution did not produce willingness for incest.
he replied," we are not wired for incest because breeding with people too genetically close to you increases the chances of recessive genes manifesting and producing a child with a genetic disease "
i asked him," it means one can approach his mother or sister with the condoms ?"
he went offline.
so such things make me sure that things are not so plain and superficial as we take .
" Heard Melodies Are Sweet But Those Unheard Are Sweeter "

---

Peoples aversion to incest is a prerequisite condition of evolution. I can see how you could argue that the use of a condom might make it okay, but you have bare in mind that evolution affects the way we think, and doesn't take into account the invention of contraceptives, which are fairly recent, (at least effective ones are anyway). Being that evolution has created that distaste to incest in the way we think, it's understandable to see that cultures too have evolved a bias against it. As rational human beings we can justify that if we use contraceptives then it's okay, but that doesn't change the fact that a lot of us (obviously there are exceptions) are hard-wired to believe it's bad, due in part to evolution and in part to culture. Personally, it disgusts me, but should it? I don't know. I don't know if I'm against it because I should be against it, or if I'm against it because I've been told I should be against it. Nature versus nurture.

(March 5, 2012 at 5:47 am)picto90 Wrote: Personally, it disgusts me, but should it?

It personally disgusts me to think of couples 70 years old having sex, but that's no reason to be against old people having sex.

(March 5, 2012 at 5:00 am)arjun Wrote: are you serious you can ever imagine to go to your mother for sex ?
you know what mother means to a child ?
i am stunned to read your comments.

Not thinking something is wrong doesn't mean I'm going to therefore immediately go out and do it. My mother doesn't interest me sexually and I'm pretty sure the feeling is mutual. Why do you think it's wrong? Would you seek to prevent a relationship that's harming no one?

If the basis of your opposition is personal disgust, then your arguments apply to anything that disgusts you. Medical operations, for example can be disgusting (or beautiful, depending on your perspective) - is that good grounds from preventing them being performed? Clearly we need a better way of determining what we ought to allow in society than personal disgust.

Quote: it disgusts me, but should it? I don't know. I don't know if I'm against it because I should be against it, or if I'm against it because I've been told I should be against it. Nature versus nurture.

or someone has pre-tuned my mind to disgust it

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Quote: Any moral condemnation must come from a rational evaluation act.

rational evaluation , what is that ?
your child changes your life , takes your time and money .you feed him, you give him proper schooling, proper food ,clothes and your own comfort to make him comfortable. why ?. on rational ground he is messing your life then why you feel happy to see him happy. give me rationale.
edited by leo-rcc: fixed quotes