(March 6, 2012 at 7:23 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: From the very beginning, most people understood that the bible is filled with allegories, symbols and figures of speech.

Not true.
The story of Adam and Eve was believed as literal truth by the Christian world for centuries.

Some people just enjoy the idea of an all powerful deity who is watching over their lives, tweaking reality for an optimal outcome, and is generally concerned with their wellbeing too much to actually consider whether there is any basis in reality for believing in such a notion. The universe is a cold place that is indifferent to life, and the reality of this is enough to drive people to revel in an unsubstantiated delusion.

(March 6, 2012 at 7:23 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: From the very beginning, most people understood that the bible is filled with allegories, symbols and figures of speech. For example, there are two creation accounts. The first is an allegory about the inner growth of the individual. The second is an allegory about how our imperfect nature leads us to pursue evil into falsity. The trick is trying to figure out which parts are history and which are symbolic. Its a source of debate between denominations and theologians. Fundies on the other hand try to shoehorn modern science into places where it doesn't fit.

If the Gospels are to be believed, one of them traced Jesus' ancestry back to Adam.

Quote:Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

The original apostles also believed in a literal Adam, if Paul's epistles are any indication:

Quote:1Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Not a big fan of Paul. That's why I'm a heretic.

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(March 6, 2012 at 7:30 pm)Xavier Wrote:

(March 6, 2012 at 7:23 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: From the very beginning, most people understood that the bible is filled with allegories, symbols and figures of speech.

Not true.
The story of Adam and Eve was believed as literal truth by the Christian world for centuries.

Origen, one of the earliest church fathers considered it an allegory. Nana nana pooh pooh.

Quote:From the very beginning, most people understood that the bible is filled with allegories, symbols and figures of speech.

You don't know many fundies, do you Chad?

They are batshit crazy because they believe every word of it is literally true and, it must be said, they may be crazy but they make one very good point. If the story of the "Fall" is bullshit then who needs jesus and his alleged "sacrifice." In this the literalists have it all over the cherry-pickers.

Unless the Fall of Man happened their whole religion is bullshit. Hence they cling to that foolishness the way a bulldog clings to a pork chop.

(March 6, 2012 at 8:23 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Not a big fan of Paul. That's why I'm a heretic.

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(March 6, 2012 at 7:30 pm)Xavier Wrote:

(March 6, 2012 at 7:23 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: From the very beginning, most people understood that the bible is filled with allegories, symbols and figures of speech.

Not true.
The story of Adam and Eve was believed as literal truth by the Christian world for centuries.

Origen, one of the earliest church fathers considered it an allegory. Nana nana pooh pooh.

Yeah and he was condemned as a heretic by the Christian church.

Look, I don't entirely disagree, because like I say I'm a Christian heretic. Believe me, when a fundy posts on the board I'll be one of the first to challenge them. If your theology depends on sacrificial atonement you have big problems, all of which the members here know like the backs of their hands.

(March 6, 2012 at 8:23 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Not a big fan of Paul. That's why I'm a heretic.

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Too bad he was one of the primary founders of Christianity.

Quote:

(March 6, 2012 at 7:30 pm)Xavier Wrote: Not true.
The story of Adam and Eve was believed as literal truth by the Christian world for centuries.

Origen, one of the earliest church fathers considered it an allegory. Nana nana pooh pooh.

I'm looking for the Book of Origen in the Bible and I can't seem to find it. Perhaps you can point out where I can find it?

Or do you not agree that the Bible is the Word of God?

Quote:If your theology depends on sacrificial atonement you have big problems

...and if you don't, I'm curious what you think Jesus was doing on the cross.

Quote:Origen, one of the earliest church fathers considered it an allegory.

Origen was also declared a heretic.

(March 6, 2012 at 8:46 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Look, I don't entirely disagree, because like I say I'm a Christian heretic. Believe me, when a fundy posts on the board I'll be one of the first to challenge them. If your theology depends on sacrificial atonement you have big problems, all of which the members here know like the backs of their hands.

I believe the entire Bible is true, there are prophesies that are not yet completely understood, that does not make them any less true. I believe that the sacrificial atonement of Christ is the only redemption for man, if one does not accept that as truth one is lost to the world. I do not see that I have problems, I do see however I have a God who loves me enough to go through all the trouble He did to give me a chance at redemption. This fundy is proud to be a christian, even though it came to me as an undeserving person.