(March 5, 2012 at 10:58 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: Indoctrinated.

We'd agree that a belief in unicorns was irrational but what if we were raised in a society where people were taught from childhood to believe in unicorns, that we were bad people if we didn't believe in unicorns, where our social activity was centered once a week around a gathering a the Church of the Sacred Unicorn? Then it wouldn't be stupid or delusional, it would be a matter of social indoctrination.

It would still be delusional

(March 5, 2012 at 10:17 pm)CriticalThinker Wrote:

(February 24, 2012 at 2:13 pm)Xavier Wrote: Obviously there are Christians who have extremely high IQs and do work high up in the fields like science.

Does it make them stupid though to blindly believe what they do in spite of any evidence whatsoever?

How is it stupid to believe? As mere humans we truly know nothing for shure. You can't say for sure that the sun will rise tomorrow. Does that mean it's a good idea to sell your farm to get as much money as possible before plants can't grow anymore?

There is a difference between belief and knowledge.
We have evidence that the sun exists, we have a loooooooong record of the sun rising every day.
We can even predict with certitude what time it will come up every day.

Therefore your analogy fails.

Next.

CriticalThinker Wrote:How is it stupid to believe? As mere humans we truly know nothing for shure. You can't say for sure that the sun will rise tomorrow. Does that mean it's a good idea to sell your farm to get as much money as possible before plants can't grow anymore?

Due to the laws of physics and the understanding of the current motions of the earth, we can say for sure, barring some highly unlikely event, the sun will rise tomorrow. Can we be 100% sure? No, because as I said, some highly unlikely event might come along, but we can be 99.999% sure that the sun will rise on the Earth's horizons tomorrow. No belief needed.

Haha, that guys name is 'CriticalThinker'. Never has a name promised so much and delivered so little.

(March 5, 2012 at 10:58 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: Indoctrinated.

We'd agree that a belief in unicorns was irrational but what if we were raised in a society where people were taught from childhood to believe in unicorns, that we were bad people if we didn't believe in unicorns, where our social activity was centered once a week around a gathering a the Church of the Sacred Unicorn? Then it wouldn't be stupid or delusional, it would be a matter of social indoctrination.

This is correct. And it's not just indoctrination, it's a heavy bias that makes you into a zone where illogical reasons to believe seem logical, and the religion just seems true and amazing.

(February 24, 2012 at 2:13 pm)Xavier Wrote: Obviously there are Christians who have extremely high IQs and do work high up in the fields like science.

Does it make them stupid though to blindly believe what they do in spite of any evidence whatsoever?

*Fixed*

Obviously there are Atheists who have extremely high IQs and do work high up in the fields like science.

Does it make them stupid though to blindly believe what they do in spite of any evidence whatsoever?

(March 5, 2012 at 12:00 am)ChadWooters Wrote: Bgood, you hurt my feelings. Ridiculous? On the surface, yes. As for me, I find the symbolism and allegories rich, complex and more profound than any other text I've known. When these guys rant and rail about how absurd it all sounds, it doesn't bother me one bit (okay maybe a little) because that's what it looks like from the perspective of those who can only recognize things that are physical. You and I know that there is an internal reality that informs the external. Even an atheist like Sartre understood that!

Hi Chad, didn't mean to hurt your fellings! lol. I agree that there is an internal reality. I would think of what you are saying is called human consciousness. It is awareness of the present moment which is the focal point of Zen buddhist practice. It is internally the brain and the five senses interacting with the environment. It is intelligence and the scope of internal dialogue. Buddhists generally do not believe in a soul. Actually we believe in No Self or Non-self (Anatta). This is a teaching to reduce selfish individualism as well as a means to urge compassion for others. I like how you mention Sartre. I remember that I enjoyed reading 'Existentialism is a Humanism' in one of my philosophy courses a while ago.

As far as the Bible goes, I think it is mostly rubbish. I find it very boring and extremely redundant. The so-called inspirational stories don't inspire me. I think it is highly over-rated, not to mention that it's mythology is mostly plaigerized from Egyptian, Sumerian and other cultures. Did you know that the story of the Great Flood was taken from the epic of Gilgamesh?

Now certain historical, literary offshoots from the Bible are interesting, such as Dante's "Divine Comedy", Milton's "Paradise Lost", and Goethe's "Faust", which is actually more Gothic than Christian, but these classic works are generally from the Rennaisance period which sort of mocked and criticized the Bible in deft ways. The greatest writers of history clearly demonstrated an evolution of thought process that far transcended the ridiculous and absurd bible fantasies. The Bible sucks. Read the Upanishads or Bhagavad Gita for greater spiritual illumination. Eastern traditions were far more spiritual than western. The dominant cultural mindset of the western world would be the Greco-Roman, which has it's own greatness and beauty in it's own right.

Christianity, in my eyes, and apparently in millions of others, was a horrible diversion from truth and love. It is a fabled philosophy that will only frustrate and confound you. Look beyond it for greater realization. You are obviously a well educated student. Now Be a Rennaissance Man!

"Did you know that the story of the Great Flood was taken from the epic of Gilgamesh?"

How did you come to this conclusion?

"Actually we believe in No Self or Non-self"

So, you exist, or am I just imagining that you do?

(March 10, 2012 at 12:00 am)black36 Wrote: "Did you know that the story of the Great Flood was taken from the epic of Gilgamesh?"

How did you come to this conclusion?

"Actually we believe in No Self or Non-self"

So, you exist, or am I just imagining that you do?

Hey, google it! I am just the messenger.

Non-Self is a buddhist method for eradicating selfishness. It transcends the small idea if us being born sinners begging for forgiveness. Anatta is a teaching that says our ego, our self perception, our wants and desires, our self conception, is basically untrue, unfounded and unreal. This is what Buddha says. Take it for what it is. I respect the basic Christian intention to do good in the world but I don't think it has ever played out that way. I think Christianity is a dysfunctional religion. It is very convoluted and sad. You have to study Buddhism and be open-minded to it's spiritual wisdom if you want to be enlightened by it. It's all good!

(March 9, 2012 at 11:43 pm)Bgood Wrote: Christianity, in my eyes, and apparently in millions of others, was a horrible diversion from truth and love. It is a fabled philosophy that will only frustrate and confound you. Look beyond it for greater realization. You are obviously a well educated student. Now Be a Rennaissance Man!

"For you Westerners, it is Swedenborg who is your Buddha, it is he who should be read and followed!" - D. T. Suzuki

We will have much to discuss. I look forward to conversing with you more in the future.