The thoughts of Chairman Jesus, huh? Okay.

Quote:Matthew 7:12

New International Version (NIV)
12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

Unfortunately for the jesus freaks we have this:

Quote:"Do not to your neighbor what you would take ill from him."

--from Pittacus of Mytilene c 580 BC ) who sort of beats ole jebus by 500 years with the Golden Rule which would be really impressive if there weren't even earlier examples from Egypt.\

Jesus' "morality" seems little more than a re-hash of common folk wisdom in the ANE.

(March 22, 2012 at 3:11 pm)mediamogul Wrote: Do Christian values/morality, as introduced by the New Testament, stand on their own?

Let us say for the sake of argument that god does not exist and the Jesus of the New Testament is soley human and not divine. Are the values put forth in his moral teachings valid in themselves? Are they sound philosophically? I am speaking here of the ethics and prescriptions for human conduct only. Is this the highest moral system?

My thought is that, taken on their own, Christian values do not represent the highest order of morality/ethics. Turning the other cheek, obedience, loving thine enemies, elevation of the "poor in spirit", meekness, and poverty embody a moral system predicated upon weakness. I believe that strong healthy human values include things like pride, assertiveness, disobedience in the face of injustice, retaliation in kind or in self defense, and sometimes strife can be as beneficial to humans as peace. To me those are worldy values that do not contradict a human's nature as the Christian values do.

The last paragraph in your post is an Excellent example of Morals/Morality. Allow me to explain. Righteousness is the absolute Standard of God. It is God's Expressed will Made complete (without sin)

Morality is man's attempt at righteousness (his version of it) with the sins he is willing to accept Incorporated into his standard of "Morality."

Morality is a sliding scale based on culture, comfort and wealth. take too much or add to much of any of these variables and the "moral" standard degrades.

That said you are correct when you identified Christ's body of work as not being "moral" or up to the standards of man. They are not, the question should be why?

In short Because morality has nothing to do with true righteousness. God is Righteous, therefore Christ is righteous. Man is moral. Man's morality contains sin. therefore Morality is not compatible with the righteousness of God.

(March 22, 2012 at 8:49 pm)Minimalist Wrote: The thoughts of Chairman Jesus, huh? Okay.

Quote:Matthew 7:12

New International Version (NIV)
12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

Unfortunately for the jesus freaks we have this:

Quote:"Do not to your neighbor what you would take ill from him."

--from Pittacus of Mytilene c 580 BC ) who sort of beats ole jebus by 500 years with the Golden Rule which would be really impressive if there weren't even earlier examples from Egypt.\

Jesus' "morality" seems little more than a re-hash of common folk wisdom in the ANE.

So this is the powerful morality of the prophets and gods?

What if i am into s&M? What If I WANT people to rape me? What if I dont believe in property?

(March 22, 2012 at 8:56 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote:

(March 22, 2012 at 8:49 pm)Minimalist Wrote: The thoughts of Chairman Jesus, huh? Okay.

Quote:Matthew 7:12

New International Version (NIV)
12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

Unfortunately for the jesus freaks we have this:

Quote:"Do not to your neighbor what you would take ill from him."

--from Pittacus of Mytilene c 580 BC ) who sort of beats ole jebus by 500 years with the Golden Rule which would be really impressive if there weren't even earlier examples from Egypt.\

Jesus' "morality" seems little more than a re-hash of common folk wisdom in the ANE.

So this is the powerful morality of the prophets and gods?

What if i am into s&M? What If I WANT people to rape me? What if I dont believe in property?

you do know Christ is quoting the command moses received a few thousand years earlier right?

(March 22, 2012 at 8:56 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote:

(March 22, 2012 at 8:49 pm)Minimalist Wrote: The thoughts of Chairman Jesus, huh? Okay.

Quote:Matthew 7:12

New International Version (NIV)
12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

Unfortunately for the jesus freaks we have this:

Quote:"Do not to your neighbor what you would take ill from him."

--from Pittacus of Mytilene c 580 BC ) who sort of beats ole jebus by 500 years with the Golden Rule which would be really impressive if there weren't even earlier examples from Egypt.\

Jesus' "morality" seems little more than a re-hash of common folk wisdom in the ANE.

So this is the powerful morality of the prophets and gods?

What if i am into s&M? What If I WANT people to rape me? What if I dont believe in property?

Right. Therein lies the logical fallacy of the golden rule. What if I'm into some really freaky stuff and want everyone to do it to me? Then I can do it to everyone.

(March 22, 2012 at 9:02 pm)mediamogul Wrote:

(March 22, 2012 at 8:56 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote:

(March 22, 2012 at 8:49 pm)Minimalist Wrote: The thoughts of Chairman Jesus, huh? Okay.

Quote:Matthew 7:12

New International Version (NIV)
12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

Unfortunately for the jesus freaks we have this:

Quote:"Do not to your neighbor what you would take ill from him."

--from Pittacus of Mytilene c 580 BC ) who sort of beats ole jebus by 500 years with the Golden Rule which would be really impressive if there weren't even earlier examples from Egypt.\

Jesus' "morality" seems little more than a re-hash of common folk wisdom in the ANE.

So this is the powerful morality of the prophets and gods?

What if i am into s&M? What If I WANT people to rape me? What if I dont believe in property?

Right. Therein lies the logical fallacy of the golden rule. What if I'm into some really freaky stuff and want everyone to do it to me? Then I can do it to everyone.

Perhaps you have identified the fallacy in the logical fallacy. As you can try to do those freaky things to others in your society where upon "if freaky enough" you will be place in custody where said "freaky things" will be visited upon yourself.

Their is no historical evidence for you fucking "moses" either.

In fact, there is no historical evidence for any mass slavery by "Hebrews" in Egypt.

Call me when you find some.

Also, it COMMANDS you to do onto others as you would have done onto you.

What if I am psycho? What if I am paranoid? What if I want someone to kill me and I would consider it a favor because life sucks so bad?

Quote:In fact, there is no historical evidence for any mass slavery by "Hebrews" in Egypt.

Indeed,nor any evidence that Egypt was a slave based society as was say Greece or Rome. Why not? Not needed; the Nile.

(March 22, 2012 at 9:16 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: Also, it COMMANDS you to do onto others as you would have done onto you.

What if I am psycho? What if I am paranoid? What if I want someone to kill me and I would consider it a favor because life sucks so bad?

Then you will get what you want and will be judged accordingly.