I do not prescribe any authority to Sean Brady, beyond what he has. Is it wrong to think that someone, especially someone who claims to be godly, would do all in their power to stop someone's suffering? He had the power to stop this crime, yet he didn't.

On the plus side, he is the head of a church of ireland priest group(about 1/4 of all irish priests) thats trying to pressurise the vatican to stop celibacy and i think theyre a potential breakaway group, but my memory is hazy on the issue, but they are anti-celibacy

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/irel...82694.html

(May 8, 2012 at 5:28 pm)DeeTee Wrote: You are just like the people who attacked Joe Paterno. You subscribe more authority tto people than they actually have. You also forget that not all people have moral courage and that other factors play a role in their own actions.

Did Brady have the same authority as any ordinary member of the public to alert the police and the parents of the victims? Was his moral courage so weak that he sat on his hands while in full knowledge that such crimes were going on? Either way, Brady has demonstrated by his inaction and his "only obeying orders" attitude that he has no business being in the job. Revenge be damned.

(May 8, 2012 at 5:28 pm)DeeTee Wrote: Your judgementalism and condemnation, when you can do no better, makes me sick.

Likewise, your "judgementalism and condemnation" of our opinions, when none of us are or were in a position do do better, makes me sick. Who are you to assume how we would behave in such situations? How dare you! How dare you!

(May 8, 2012 at 5:28 pm)DeeTee Wrote:

Quote:Maybe some priest should stick his dick up your ass so you can find out what these people went through at the hands of these servants of your fucking god.

Read 1 John. Those who practice sin are NOT of God nor are His servants. Try to be a bit more sophisticated instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Oh, it's easy to throw around the biblespam when you're not the victim, isn't it? When it's not your arse and your childhood innocence on the receiving end? Well, whatever helps you sleep at night I suppose. I wonder what choice bits of biblespam Brendan Smyth and his fellow child-rapists use to justify their crimes to themselves and help them sleep at night?

So these priests are not of God (sorry... are NOT of God)? How convenient! Wonder if they mentioned that when pocketing their salaries, that they're being paid for a job for which they're not entitled? And what about Brady? By sitting and doing nothing about a crime which he knew had happened, and for all he knew was still happening, he is as guilty as the rapist priest himself; if not more so.

I echo Min's comment, in spades.

Quote:Did Brady have the same authority as any ordinary member of the public to alert the police and the parents of the victims? Was his moral courage so weak that he sat on his hands while in full knowledge that such crimes were going on? Either way, Brady has demonstrated by his inaction and his "only obeying orders" attitude that he has no business being in the job. Revenge be damned.

One of the reasons I detest discussing any topic related to child abuse/molestation is that the secular side is far too emotional, irrational and illogical.

When a child is involved they are ready to lynch anyone and everyone remotely connected to the alledged crime and toss out the rules of the leagl system without nary a thought nor care.

They do not know all the facts yet talk like they do. They do not know the whole story yet think their eisegetical input replaces such facts.

in reality, those not involved in the alledged crime do not have a clue as to what they are talking about and do more damge than good.

Quote:Oh, it's easy to throw around the biblespam when you're not the victim, isn't it? When it's not your arse and your childhood innocence on the receiving end? Well, whatever helps you sleep at night I suppose. I wonder what choice bits of biblespam Brendan Smyth and his fellow child-rapists use to justify their crimes to themselves and help them sleep at night?

You assume far too much. it doesn't matter if my rear end was involved or not, the Biblical instructions apply to all, even victims of crimes.

Wouldn't know what they did to justify their deeds. i wasn't there nor were you.

Quote:So these priests are not of God (sorry... are NOT of God)? How convenient! Wonder if they mentioned that when pocketing their salaries, that they're being paid for a job for which they're not entitled?

You've never heard of 'wolves in sheep's clothing'? or false teachers?

Quote:And what about Brady? By sitting and doing nothing about a crime which he knew had happened, and for all he knew was still happening, he is as guilty as the rapist priest himself; if not more so.

Were you present with him during this time? How do you know he did nothing? it is a good thing the world doesn't have to meet your ideas of responsibility, nothing would ever get done and too many innocent people would be hurt.

like I said, when a child is involved observers throw all sanity out the window and rely on emotion. You are part of the problem not part of the solution.

(May 8, 2012 at 5:28 pm)DeeTee Wrote: You subscribe more authority to people than they actually have.

You are joking, right? This is a troll... Isn't it? Seriously. No, you can't be serious...

What would YOU do if you knew a child was being abused?

I'll tell you what I would do, I would make sure the police were informed in an instant. I wouldn't give a damn who it was that was abusing the children, it could be a a peer, a colleague, a superior, a friend or a family member, I simply would not care. I'd be on the phone giving them the details, names, addresses, whatever I could do to help those children.

The church's excuse in this fiasco, "there were no guidelines", is nothing short of a disgrace. Cardinal Brady and all who defend him are a disgrace. He should be sacked.

Both he and the church should be investigated by the authorities to see if a criminal prosecution can be taken forward.

Quote:"there were no guidelines"

Wait, wait.... the church may have a point there. They've probably been butt-fucking children since the 4th century when that thug, Constantine, gave them the power to do whatever the fuck they wanted in "god's name."

I bet there is no where in that fucking old pile of shit called a "bible" that specifically says that priests can't ass-rape children. They just grabbed the loophole and apologists like DT are quick to let them get away with it in "god's" name.

God is one sorry sack of shit if this is the best he can do for followers.

DeeTee Wrote:in reality, those not involved in the alledged crime do not have a clue as to what they are talking about and do more damge than good.

Here is what we know. The man has publically apologized for his role in the scandal, and is quoted as saying, "Definitely the parents should have been informed. That's quite clear."

So, we know he has taken responsibilty, and acknowledged that parents were not informed while simultaneously admitting that he failed to share what he knew. I'm not sure why you think everyone is just spouting off without the facts. This is quite enough to know this man is complicit in this whole scandal. Your insistance that everyone is jumping to conclusions and does not know enough is coming across as sympathy for what this man has done.

He needs to be held accountable for his actions just as anoyone outside of a religious hierarchy
such as the Catholic church would.

(May 8, 2012 at 6:56 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Wait, wait.... the church may have a point there. They've probably been butt-fucking children since the 4th century when that thug, Constantine, gave them the power to do whatever the fuck they wanted in "god's name."

I bet there is no where in that fucking old pile of shit called a "bible" that specifically says that priests can't ass-rape children. They just grabbed the loophole and apologists like DT are quick to let them get away with it in "god's" name.

God is one sorry sack of shit if this is the best he can do for followers.

I wonder how they rationalize their bible's homophobia with sodomizing altar boys. Maybe some thing like "The bible says 'thou shalt not lie with a man...' not 'thou shalt not lie with a boy'".

Quote:I wonder how they rationalize their bible's homophobia with sodomizing altar boys.

Be serious, Genk.




They always trot out the same old line of shit.

(May 8, 2012 at 6:33 pm)DeeTee Wrote: One of the reasons I detest discussing any topic related to child abuse/molestation is that the secular side is far too emotional, irrational and illogical.

When a child is involved they are ready to lynch anyone and everyone remotely connected to the alledged crime and toss out the rules of the leagl system without nary a thought nor care.

Quite to the contrary, I wish to see justice served. It's not a lynching if the accused is guilty. The ones who toss out the rules of the legal system with nary a thought or care because they seem to think such things do not apply to them as followers of some higher morality - what are we to make of them?

(May 8, 2012 at 6:33 pm)DeeTee Wrote: They do not know all the facts yet talk like they do. They do not know the whole story yet think their eisegetical input replaces such facts.

in reality, those not involved in the alledged crime do not have a clue as to what they are talking about and do more damge than good.

Which is why we have to rely on the facts as presented, just like you do, but without the air of sneering condescension.

(May 8, 2012 at 6:33 pm)DeeTee Wrote:

---

Quote:Oh, it's easy to throw around the biblespam when you're not the victim, isn't it? When it's not your arse and your childhood innocence on the receiving end? Well, whatever helps you sleep at night I suppose. I wonder what choice bits of biblespam Brendan Smyth and his fellow child-rapists use to justify their crimes to themselves and help them sleep at night?

---

You assume far too much. it doesn't matter if my rear end was involved or not, the Biblical instructions apply to all, even victims of crimes.

It's called empathy, you tool. It's one of the things that stops me from breaking the neck of the first preachy prat I see telling me what their bible says I should do. My point was that it's all to easy to quote bible verses as though they had some relevance when you're sitting in a nice warm room with no sexual predator eyeing up your arse. Don't you think the victims of these crimes (and if not these particular 'alleged' victims, then at least those of proven cases) would gladly have swapped places with you if they could?

(May 8, 2012 at 6:33 pm)DeeTee Wrote: Wouldn't know what they did to justify their deeds. i wasn't there nor were you.

Right. You keep on saying this. None of us were there at the time, so like everyone else - relevant authorities included (if the crimes are reported to them) - we have to rely on the facts as presented. I wasn't there when you typed out all this that I am responding to; how can I know it really happened?

To reiterate my other point here: you seem to find it easy and perfectly laudible to trot out some bible verse or other to justify your position. These priests would surely find it equally as easy and laudible, it being their job and all. The bible - the big book of multiple choice. Pick 'n' mix morality. You can keep it.

(May 8, 2012 at 6:33 pm)DeeTee Wrote:

---

Quote:So these priests are not of God (sorry... are NOT of God)? How convenient! Wonder if they mentioned that when pocketing their salaries, that they're being paid for a job for which they're not entitled?

---

You've never heard of 'wolves in sheep's clothing'? or false teachers?

That's not my problem. They clearly think they are "of God", you clearly think they are "NOT" (or purport to think that, at least). From my position, I can't tell the difference. And I don't have to.

(May 8, 2012 at 6:33 pm)DeeTee Wrote:

Quote:And what about Brady? By sitting and doing nothing about a crime which he knew had happened, and for all he knew was still happening, he is as guilty as the rapist priest himself; if not more so.

Were you present with him during this time? How do you know he did nothing?

Well for one thing we have Brady's own testimony:

Quote:"Definitely the parents should have been informed. That's quite clear," Cardinal Brady told RTE.

But Cardinal Brady accused the documentary makers of exaggerating his role. He said he had been present simply to take notes, and that he had reported to more senior clergy whom he expected to take appropriate action.

Cardinal Brady previously apologised over the issue during Mass on St Patrick's Day in 2010.

He said: "I have listened to reaction from people to my role in events 35 years ago.

"I want to say to anyone who has been hurt by any failure on my part that I apologise to you with all my heart.

"I also apologise to all those who feel I have let them down.

"Looking back I am ashamed that I have not always upheld the values that I profess and believe in."

(May 8, 2012 at 6:33 pm)DeeTee Wrote: it is a good thing the world doesn't have to meet your ideas of responsibility, nothing would ever get done and too many innocent people would be hurt.

Oh what, they're not getting hurt now and by people who defer their ideas of responsibility to the same 'holy' book you cited in dismissing them?

(May 8, 2012 at 6:33 pm)DeeTee Wrote: like I said, when a child is involved observers throw all sanity out the window and rely on emotion. You are part of the problem not part of the solution.

One of the major differences between me and thee, if comments such as these are anything to go by, is that I actually have emotional connections to my fellow humans. If I see another person in pain, or distress, and I am in a position to help even in some small way, I will always do so. If I cannot, if the most I can offer is my sympathy, I will do that too. Either way, I feel their pain. Your twisting that to pass judgement on my sanity is irrelevant.

As far as being part of the problem is concerned, I might add that I have never molested anyone, sexually or otherwise, child or not; and were I to occupy a position from which I could bring to justice someone who does, I would do all I can to bring that about. I certainly wouldn't attempt to hide the crime and its perpetrators under the carpet like Brady and his superiors are alleged to have done. How is that any way part of the solution?