Psychology would disagree with you on that last point. Humans do this all the time.

(May 13, 2012 at 3:31 pm)Annik Wrote: Psychology would disagree with you on that last point. Humans do this all the time.

You misunderstand what I was saying.

I didn't say people do not do this. I am saying our experiences are not limited by these types of occurrence. What you all call miracles still do happen.

I'm saying that you do this. Random chance, science (mostly medicine, poor doctors) and plain hard work often get attributed to come deity that has nothing to do with it. You almost get into a car crash, but you car "miraculously" stopped short, thank an engineer. You "miraculously" recover from a terrible illness you're seeking treatment for, thank a doctor. A hurricane comes through and your house is "miraculously" saved from the damage, thank both engineers and architects. There are no miracles. Just chance and hard work.

(May 13, 2012 at 3:40 pm)Annik Wrote: I'm saying that you do this. Random chance, science (mostly medicine, poor doctors) and plain hard work often get attributed to come deity that has nothing to do with it. You almost get into a car crash, but you car "miraculously" stopped short, thank an engineer. You "miraculously" recover from a terrible illness you're seeking treatment for, thank a doctor. A hurricane comes through and your house is "miraculously" saved from the damage, thank both engineers and architects. There are no miracles. Just chance and hard work.

What about being freed from HIV who do I thank for that?

Scientist/Doctors. There is actually some incredibly promising results from recent research. To date, one man has been cured of it completely. I won't hold me breath, of course. This stuff requires a lot of time, peer review and trail testing.

(May 13, 2012 at 1:01 pm)Drich Wrote: A faith built on signs and wonders demand ever more spectaciluar signs and wonders to be maintained. This is not what God wants from us so no.

He had no problem doing it in the bible. Whys that? Seems like As more reliable techniques of recording and testing became available, less and less miracles occur. Nowdays they only occur where there conveniently aren't any reliable recording techniques (cameras and such) god must be camera shy

(May 13, 2012 at 3:41 pm)Drich Wrote: What about being freed from HIV who do I thank for that?

Don't go running back to religion if you can't answer something. That's silly.
People who have had cancer, have been cured of it without medical help. The human body and especially the human mind shouldn't be so quickly ruled out. It's been thought that the human mind can do some incredible things. There still tons we don't know about it.

(May 13, 2012 at 3:50 pm)Ace Otana Wrote:

(May 13, 2012 at 3:41 pm)Drich Wrote: What about being freed from HIV who do I thank for that?

Don't go running back to religion if you can't answer something. That's silly.
People who have had cancer, have been cured of it without medical help. The human body and especially the human mind shouldn't be so quickly ruled out. It's been thought that the human mind can do some incredible things. There still tons we don't know about it.

This should also be considered. Our bodies can do some crazy things sometimes, although you should still seek medical help for cancer and things of the like.

Taken from my "post number 1"

I prayed this prayer with the attitude "no matter the cost" and I got what i prayed for. I was diagnosed with over 200 skin lesions due to a viral infection that people with healthy immune systems can easily fight off. This lead the doctors to suspect that i had HIV. They did a test and two weeks later confirmed the initial diagnosis, upon which I was given another test to confirm. I prayed for my life initially then found a great peace. It wasn't until I humbled myself that I did find what I was looking for. Not in a church not in a religious denomination, but in God. the doctor had me return for my second test results and another round of treatment for my lesions. Where upon I was tested negative for HIV. Again another blood sample was taken and a revisit scheduled. When I returned the remaining lesions had healed themselves. I still have over 100 small scars where the lesions were treated to remind me of my answered prayer. (even still this was not enough for me to completely change, but it was enough to break my hard heart, and point me in the right direction.)

If you want to know God then offer all that you have to give. Give Him what is most valuable in your life. Money, job, life whatever you will not put a price on, offer all of it. Know you may not get it back but you will have your "proof" before you die. (you just don't know how soon that will be)

Just want you to know what you are asking for in the "prayer" you offered. Now all you have to do is seek in the bible, in church, and with people like me (willing to study with you) and knock by repeating this process till you get what you want.

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(May 13, 2012 at 3:54 pm)Annik Wrote:

(May 13, 2012 at 3:50 pm)Ace Otana Wrote: Don't go running back to religion if you can't answer something. That's silly.
People who have had cancer, have been cured of it without medical help. The human body and especially the human mind shouldn't be so quickly ruled out. It's been thought that the human mind can do some incredible things. There still tons we don't know about it.

This should also be considered. Our bodies can do some crazy things sometimes, although you should still seek medical help for cancer and things of the like.

so thank anything but God?

(May 13, 2012 at 3:29 pm)Drich Wrote: [quote='Thor' pid='285444' dateline='1336932471']
How can you have "a relationship" with a being that never appears or interacts with you?

Quote:I did not say never. Just rarly if ever before you make the first effort.

Oh, so this deity has interacted with you?

Quote:According to what you Think I believe, I could have "a relationship" with George Washington.

Let's see... you have "a relationship" with a being that never appears, speaks or communicates in any discernible fashion. I could have the same type of "relationship" with George Washington.

Quote:This statement presupposes that "we" only see things we wish to ascribe to God.

No, it presuposes that you ascribe random events to the actions of a deity.