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May 22, 2012 at 5:44 pm (This post was last modified: May 22, 2012 at 5:48 pm by Reforged.)
(May 22, 2012 at 5:37 pm)Polaris Wrote:
(May 22, 2012 at 5:33 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: So? So was Hitler, Stalin, Fritzle. Why should it matter what species they are?
Just because someone committed crimes, does not mean we must trade in our humanity to see that vengeance is served.
Our humanity isn't sacrificed by removing a danger to our friends, our family and our society. Its not about vengence or even justice.
Its about preserving the best of us from the worst of us.
I can live with that.
Don't get me wrong though, I am under no illusion these were the reasons that he was killed for.
"That is not dead which can eternal lie and with strange aeons even death may die."
- Abdul Alhazred.
Duch setup prisons in Cambodia, in those prisons thousands upon tens of thousands were tortured and murdered, Duch is directly responsible for all this horror. When the Vietnamese came into the country to stop the horror, Duch disappeared, hiding out for many years. During this time he was hiding in refugee camps and in one particular camp he came to know a Christian pastor, Duch later accepted Christ as his savior and worked in the church for years. He was eventually caught and put on trial, the Pastor who befriended him testified at his trial, telling the judges that he forgave him and loved him even though Duch was responsible for killing part of the Pastors family, the Pastor did believe that Duch should have to pay for the atrocities he caused. In the end the court gave this man 35 years and the time he had already spent in prison lessened to time to about 25 years. Here is a story of human justice that does not come close to being just, Duch should have had to spent the rest of his life in prison. The spiritual justice here, if he really has accepted Christ as his savior and repented, God will not see his sin because of Christ and as the Father promised Duch will be in heaven.
Sorry, what part of the Pastor using his position to pervert the course of justice because Duch decided to convert would be considered spiritually just? Oh, that was it?
Yeah, well done.
You haven't altered the meaning of justice to suit your purposes then added "spiritual" on the begining at all.
Seriously man, you must have some really twisted, dark shit in your past to want to believe that. I don't know what you want to believe you're going to be forgiven for so desperately but the only person you're fooling is yourself.
Deal with it.
Seriously, can't you understand what you read, the pastor never tried to help get him off. I stated the pastor thought he deserved to get a serious sentence not the little bit he got. Can you understand this. There's plenty in my past that I'm not proud of, as for being dark not me I have the light of Christ, it is you who is in the dark.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
May 22, 2012 at 6:08 pm (This post was last modified: May 22, 2012 at 6:15 pm by Reforged.)
(May 22, 2012 at 5:58 pm)Godschild Wrote:
(May 22, 2012 at 4:00 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: Sorry, what part of the Pastor using his position to pervert the course of justice because Duch decided to convert would be considered spiritually just? Oh, that was it?
Yeah, well done.
You haven't altered the meaning of justice to suit your purposes then added "spiritual" on the begining at all.
Seriously man, you must have some really twisted, dark shit in your past to want to believe that. I don't know what you want to believe you're going to be forgiven for so desperately but the only person you're fooling is yourself.
Deal with it.
Seriously, can't you understand what you read, the pastor never tried to help get him off. I stated the pastor thought he deserved to get a serious sentence not the little bit he got. Can you understand this. There's plenty in my past that I'm not proud of, as for being dark not me I have the light of Christ, it is you who is in the dark.
Fine, fair enough. I misread it but you're still making the case that because Duch converted he goes to heaven despite destroying all those lives. Thats not any kind of justice, you've just redefined justice to mean that and put the word spiritual infront of it. Thats still fucked up and I still stand by what I said, you must of done some seriously messed up shit to want to believe that.
Say I'm in the dark all you like but I've never killed anyone, I've never told anyone they're going to burn forever and I've never claimed mass-murder is negligible as long as you say sorry to God afterwards. If that makes me in the dark then I'm ok with it.
You can shove the light of Jesus straight up your ass, thats where you seem to think it shines out of anyway.
"That is not dead which can eternal lie and with strange aeons even death may die."
- Abdul Alhazred.
Seriously, can't you understand what you read, the pastor never tried to help get him off. I stated the pastor thought he deserved to get a serious sentence not the little bit he got. Can you understand this. There's plenty in my past that I'm not proud of, as for being dark not me I have the light of Christ, it is you who is in the dark.
Fine, fair enough. I misread it but you're still making the case that because Duch converted he goes to heaven despite destroying all those lives. Thats not any kind of justice, you've just redefined justice to mean that and put the word spiritual infront of it. Thats still fucked up and I still stand by what I said, you must of done some seriously messed up shit to want to believe that.
Say I'm in the dark all you like but I've never killed anyone, I've never told anyone they're going to burn forever and I've never claimed mass-murder is negligible as long as you say sorry to God afterwards. If that makes me in the dark then I'm ok with it.
You can shove the light of Jesus straight up your ass, thats where you seem to think it shines out of anyway.
Again you have missed the whole point, God made the promise, that whoever believes in Christ and repents from their sin will be forgiven and live in heaven forever. God has keep His word irregardless of whether you like it or not, besides why should you care what God does, it's no skin off your teeth. The punishment that should have been dealt to Duch never came, he paid a small price for what he had done, it is the human error that makes me upset, the laws man has put into place should have been upheld and they weren't.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
May 23, 2012 at 9:12 am (This post was last modified: May 23, 2012 at 9:14 am by Reforged.)
(May 23, 2012 at 12:41 am)Godschild Wrote:
(May 22, 2012 at 6:08 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: Fine, fair enough. I misread it but you're still making the case that because Duch converted he goes to heaven despite destroying all those lives. Thats not any kind of justice, you've just redefined justice to mean that and put the word spiritual infront of it. Thats still fucked up and I still stand by what I said, you must of done some seriously messed up shit to want to believe that.
Say I'm in the dark all you like but I've never killed anyone, I've never told anyone they're going to burn forever and I've never claimed mass-murder is negligible as long as you say sorry to God afterwards. If that makes me in the dark then I'm ok with it.
You can shove the light of Jesus straight up your ass, thats where you seem to think it shines out of anyway.
Again you have missed the whole point, God made the promise, that whoever believes in Christ and repents from their sin will be forgiven and live in heaven forever. God has keep His word irregardless of whether you like it or not, besides why should you care what God does, it's no skin off your teeth. The punishment that should have been dealt to Duch never came, he paid a small price for what he had done, it is the human error that makes me upset, the laws man has put into place should have been upheld and they weren't.
What happened wasn't human justice, that was law. Those are two different concepts that rarely see eye to eye. Justice is balance, crime and retribution, right and wrong. Law exists simply to keep a society functioning, it sometimes touches on justice but that is not its real function. Its real function is to keep anarchy from descending and to keep its government in power. It is open to redefining and change dependent on who is deciding it at the time.
Thats besides the point, the skin off my teeth comes from someone telling me that he believes a man who massacred countless human beings is now in eternal paradise because he said "Yeah, sorry God. I got abit carried away."
No, ok? No. Thats not cool. That is not any definition of justice, there is no retribution, punishment or balance in any of that. If you honestly believe that then don't you attempt to tell anyone here that your Gods morality is the standard because it blatently isn't.
Oh and don't try to tell me "Oh, humans can't understand *Gods* morality. Hes above and beyond us." either.
You can't even *prove* he exists yet this is the morale compass you have decided to go by. Not because its just, not because theres any element of plausiblity to it but because it is conveiniant to you. It makes you feel special, it makes you feel "righteous" and its what you've known for the majority of your life.
Bottom line? You don't care if its true or not. You're all too happy to condemn your fellow man either way, just as long as you get to feel like you're a special little boy. None of us are going to paradise when we die, none of us and you don't get forgiven by an invisible man. You get forgiven by others and by yourself. You want a paradise? Make yours in the here, in the now, in the moment while theres still moments left to enjoy. Its not perfect but its real, its free and when you make it your own those are some of the happiest moments a human being can experience.
Thats what it means to be truly alive.
"That is not dead which can eternal lie and with strange aeons even death may die."
- Abdul Alhazred.
May 23, 2012 at 2:08 pm (This post was last modified: May 23, 2012 at 2:09 pm by Welsh cake.)
(May 22, 2012 at 5:32 pm)Polaris Wrote: They're still human.
Irrelevant. Their victims were human also. That assertion has no bearing on pardoning them from their appalling crimes against their fellow man or acquitting them from a well-deserved death sentence.
(May 22, 2012 at 5:32 pm)Polaris Wrote: They're still human.
Irrelevant. Their victims were human also. That assertion has no bearing on pardoning them from their appalling crimes against their fellow man or acquitting them from a well-deserved death sentence.
Sentencing someone to life is not a pardon.
But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us from all sin.
(May 23, 2012 at 2:08 pm)Welsh cake Wrote: Irrelevant. Their victims were human also. That assertion has no bearing on pardoning them from their appalling crimes against their fellow man or acquitting them from a well-deserved death sentence.
Sentencing someone to life is not a pardon.
No, its a privledge. One their victims did not recieve.
"That is not dead which can eternal lie and with strange aeons even death may die."
- Abdul Alhazred.
Again you have missed the whole point, God made the promise, that whoever believes in Christ and repents from their sin will be forgiven and live in heaven forever. God has keep His word irregardless of whether you like it or not, besides why should you care what God does, it's no skin off your teeth. The punishment that should have been dealt to Duch never came, he paid a small price for what he had done, it is the human error that makes me upset, the laws man has put into place should have been upheld and they weren't.
RD Wrote:What happened wasn't human justice, that was law. Those are two different concepts that rarely see eye to eye. Justice is balance, crime and retribution, right and wrong. Law exists simply to keep a society functioning, it sometimes touches on justice but that is not its real function. Its real function is to keep anarchy from descending and to keep its government in power. It is open to redefining and change dependent on who is deciding it at the time.
You can bet your sweet tutu it was not justice in the court of law. Do you believe that Duch saw justice in a human court? If the law does not serve for justice then it will fail and so will it's society. The law nor government stand one above the other, they are to work hand in hand, serving the people with justice. The law may be redefined, however justice should be unchanging, unfortunately man's justice is forever changing, God's justice never changes.
RD Wrote:That's besides the point, the skin off my teeth comes from someone telling me that he believes a man who massacred countless human beings is now in eternal paradise because he said "Yeah, sorry God. I got abit carried away."
You definitely do not understand repentance, that or you're just an antagonist. He will spend eternity with God if he truly repented, I do not know this, however God does and His justice will reign, irregardless of what you think.
RD Wrote:No, ok? No. Thats not cool. That is not any definition of justice, there is no retribution, punishment or balance in any of that. If you honestly believe that then don't you attempt to tell anyone here that your Gods morality is the standard because it blatently isn't.
Oh and don't try to tell me "Oh, humans can't understand *Gods* morality. Hes above and beyond us." either.
Who are you to tell anyone they can not express their beliefs. I do not have to tell you God is beyond us, God Himself says He is.
What definition of justice?
RD Wrote:You can't even *prove* he exists yet this is the morale compass you have decided to go by. Not because its just, not because theres any element of plausiblity to it but because it is conveiniant to you. It makes you feel special, it makes you feel "righteous" and its what you've known for the majority of your life.
I do not need to prove to you God exist, why, God says you have no excuse not to believe He exists. I know He exist and I believe that is what upsets you, I know and you don't. Well you are the only one that can change that.
Being a child of God does not make me feel special, nor am I righteous, it is the righteousness of Christ that is my salvation. The difference in yourself and me is this, I have accepted what Christ has done for man and you have rejected Him, simple really.
RD Wrote:Bottom line? You don't care if its true or not. You're all too happy to condemn your fellow man either way, just as long as you get to feel like you're a special little boy. None of us are going to paradise when we die, none of us and you don't get forgiven by an invisible man. You get forgiven by others and by yourself. You want a paradise? Make yours in the here, in the now, in the moment while theres still moments left to enjoy. Its not perfect but its real, its free and when you make it your own those are some of the happiest moments a human being can experience.
Thats what it means to be truly alive.
You really must be off in the head, if I did not care if God is real, I surely would not be serving Him. I have no feelings of specialty, that exist only in the delusions of your mind. I'm going to paradise, where you wind up at is your choice. You being a nonbeliever have no idea what it's truly like to live free and be truly alive, until you have experienced the grace of God you will never know.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
"I do not have to tell you God is beyond us, God Himself says He is."
"I do not need to prove to you God exist, why, God says you have no excuse not to believe He exists."
"if I did not care if God is real, I surely would not be serving Him. I have no feelings of specialty,"
This conversation is over, you've proven my point. You're indoctrinated to the point of psychosis.
Reason is no more present in your mind than truth is in your words and its evident for everyone to see.
Even most other Christians would be repulsed by your ridiculous notions, I may as well be debating with a paitent in an asylum who has a particular fondness for flinging his own feces at the walls.
We're done here, continue with whatever it is drooling lunatics do for enjoyment.
"That is not dead which can eternal lie and with strange aeons even death may die."
- Abdul Alhazred.
