(May 26, 2012 at 12:15 am)aleialoura Wrote: As far as the exploitation goes, whether the family profited from the birth/death of their son monetarily is unknown. From all the photos I would say that they weren't poor to begin with, that's obvious. Even if they made only $5 profit, it's disgusting, but even if they made nothing, they're still exploiting that baby. They're blatantly using him to promote a pro-life agenda. Some people would say there isn't anything wrong with that, but she said she wants her baby to inspire all women to choose life, no matter what.

She's reaching out to other women so they might have the strength to hold their children in their arms as well.

Also, "my son's life had a greater purpose and can help others" =/= "my son is a tool". As Christians, we always want our lives to be about making the world a better place, and I am sure she also wanted that for her son's short life as well. It's a bit shameful I think, to talk about how being pro-life might make "other women feel bad" and "that's not nice" but if she has the audacity to talk about her son's life maybe helping other people in the same situation, she is "fucking sick" and thinks "her son is a tool".

Quote:If you cover up the bottom half of her face, and just look at her eyes, you will notice that you'd still be able to tell that she is happily smiling. That means the smiles are authentic.

You can fake a happy smile as well, but I do believe also the smile is authentic. For her, while she might be very sad, I am sure she was also very happy as well, because that was the birth of her son, the only time she could hold him and love him. I think most mothers would smile at having their newborn baby in their arms, especially when you know she probably had a while to prepare herself emotionally for the fact she would only have a very short time to be with him and love him with everything that she had. Different people respond emotionally in different ways. I remember when I was visiting my great aunt, who I loved very dearly, in the hospital. I knew she was going to die very soon. But yet she was still HER and we could still joke and I smiled for real, just to spend time with her was a happy thing. Then the sadness would hit like "this might be the last time I see her" (and it was) and then I started crying. (I am crying now honestly).

Maybe you are different, sure. Maybe you would not be able to smile when spending precious time with a loved one on their deathbed. But please don't project. If she "hated her baby" as you accuse her of, I don't think she would smile a genuine smile when she held him in her arms.

(May 26, 2012 at 3:19 am)Aiza Wrote: She's reaching out to other women so they might have the strength to hold their children in their arms as well.

She could be, but I think it would be better if she was just generally supportive of women in the pregnancy crisis stage. Ya know, like telling them it's understandable if they can't go through with the pregnancy. Because it is. She's just telling them you should go through with it because she did... Oh! and it's what mr. jesus wants you to do.

Quote:Also, "my son's life had a greater purpose and can help others" =/= "my son is a tool".

Holy fuck. Do I have to quote her repulsive fucking blog again?

"This journey continues as God uses Grayson's life to bring people to Himself."

If I have a leaky faucet, I use a wrench to fix it. I suppose you just pray? Anyway, unless she donated her son's body to science, I don't see how she's helping. She's just spouting on about her jesus shit.

Strength? Yeah right. If she had any real strength, she wouldn't have to soothe herself with insane religious justifications for why the fuck her god made her baby with such a horrible defect. She'd realize that there is no god, and if there is, then he's a wretched prick who used her son to make more people fucking love him.

Quote:As Christians, we always want our lives to be about making the world a better place, and I am sure she also wanted that for her son's short life as well.

That was the most hilarious all-encompassing load of horse shit I've read all day.

Quote:It's a bit shameful I think, to talk about how being pro-life might make "other women feel bad" and "that's not nice" but if she has the audacity to talk about her son's life maybe helping other people in the same situation, she is "fucking sick" and thinks "her son is a tool".

Shameful? To suggest that other women in her situation should go through with it, and for all reasons, because god wants them to... to make them out as murderers because they can't deal with it emotionally is fucking shameful. Eight hours after her baby was born, her god murdered her baby. So let me get this shit straight- woman terminates no brained baby before he's born= sinful murderous bitch. god kills infant by giving him no brain after he is born= great guy, perfect, merciful, loving, and worthy of praise?????

Give me a fucking break.

Quote:You can fake a happy smile as well, but I do believe also the smile is authentic.

If one is at ease already, yes one can fake a real smile. In a time such as this, it would be more difficult and there would be inconsistencies. I also believe the smile is authentic, which kinda makes me want to throw up.

Quote: For her, while she might be very sad, I am sure she was also very happy as well, because that was the birth of her son, the only time she could hold him and love him.

I've tried to put myself in her shoes. I know the joy of having 4 children. Fortunately I haven't felt the tremendous sorrow of losing one of them. When I try to put myself in her place, I can't even muster a smile. If I had just a few short hours to love on my baby, and I knew it... I think I would just want to be alone, save a few close family members, and have a thoughtful, peaceful time with him while I could. I don't think I would see it as a time to pass him around to everyone and stare at a camera saying "CHEESE!".

Quote:Different people respond emotionally in different ways.

That's true, and you can judge a person's general mentality and character by the way they respond to it. That's pretty much what I've been doing.

Quote:I remember when I was visiting my great aunt, who I loved very dearly, in the hospital. I knew she was going to die very soon. But yet she was still HER and we could still joke and I smiled for real, just to spend time with her was a happy thing.

I'm assuming your aunt had a brain and could make jokes. I am also assuming that she lived for longer than a day, and that was appropriate. My best friend died almost 20 years after being diagnosed with HIV. His last words were, "I'm sorry I have to leave you here alone with all these idiots." I laughed though my tears. He would've been terribly offended if I hadn't, anyway. He faded into a coma shortly after that. I don't think I laughed again for a month. Death is hard, but I am not saying that you can't sit with a dying loved one and laugh/be happy that they're still with you. I am saying that to pass around your dying child like a cool new christmas present is pretty fucking weird... and creepy.

Quote:Then the sadness would hit like "this might be the last time I see her" (and it was) and then I started crying. (I am crying now honestly).

You see her all around you all the time. You're just not educated enough about physics to realize that.

Quote:Maybe you are different, sure. Maybe you would not be able to smile when spending precious time with a loved one on their deathbed. But please don't project. If she "hated her baby" as you accuse her of, I don't think she would smile a genuine smile when she held him in her arms.

I doubt she hated her baby. I think she was smiling because she enjoyed the attention.

I get away with murder... but I wear a burka so no one can identify me.

(May 26, 2012 at 9:48 am)frankiej Wrote: I get away with murder... but I wear a burka so know one can identify me.

Always knew you were such a ho frankiej!!

I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die.

(May 26, 2012 at 9:53 am)popeyespappy Wrote: I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die.

But did you enjoy it?? THIS is the question....

Other than that, would YOU like to see YOUR daughter do this??

NOT ME thank you so much, I can't be having with this!

(May 26, 2012 at 9:57 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote:

(May 26, 2012 at 9:53 am)popeyespappy Wrote: I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die.

But did you enjoy it?? THIS is the question....

Other than that, would YOU like to see YOUR daughter do this??

NOT ME thank you so much, I can't be having with this!

I had all my daughters fixed while they were still just pups.

(May 26, 2012 at 5:22 am)aleialoura Wrote: She could be, but I think it would be better if she was just generally supportive of women in the pregnancy crisis stage. Ya know, like telling them it's understandable if they can't go through with the pregnancy. Because it is. She's just telling them you should go through with it because she did... Oh! and it's what mr. jesus wants you to do.

So the reason why you are so malicious toward her and eager to smear her is that she is, in fact, pro-life and believed her son's life was precious from the beginning, and hopes that other mothers may also treasure their children in this way?

A mom who genuinely wants to kill her kid in utero will do it no matter what her blog says.

Quote:If I have a leaky faucet, I use a wrench to fix it. I suppose you just pray? Anyway, unless she donated her son's body to science, I don't see how she's helping. She's just spouting on about her jesus shit.

Ok so your whole argument is that she used the word "use" on her blog and therefore--she thinks her kid is a tool because we also use the word "use" on her blog.

Well call me a tool, because I also intend on using my life to serve others and God.

Quote:Eight hours after her baby was born, her god murdered her baby. So let me get this shit straight- woman terminates no brained baby before he's born= sinful murderous bitch. god kills infant by giving him no brain after he is born= great guy, perfect, merciful, loving, and worthy of praise?????

Um, does she say that God gave him "no brain"? I mean, maybe she did, but that would be an atypical Christian belief. Did she use terms like "sinful murderous bitch"? I think only one side here is using such judgmental language.

Quote: If I had just a few short hours to love on my baby, and I knew it... I think I would just want to be alone, save a few close family members, and have a thoughtful, peaceful time with him while I could. I don't think I would see it as a time to pass him around to everyone and stare at a camera saying "CHEESE!".

Okay, and therefore all women are like you? Or all women should be more like you? You seem very eager to talk about yourself, but you aren't in her shoes here, and even if you were, you are not her. She wanted everyone to get a chance to see her precious son like many proud parents would be, and of course she wants pictures to remember him by.

Quote:I'm assuming your aunt had a brain and could make jokes. I am also assuming that she lived for longer than a day, and that was appropriate.

Oh okay, so 24 hours is the official cutoff point for when smiling with a loved one no longer becomes "okay" (and in fact turns you into either a hateful monster or someone who 'enjoys attention').

Quote:You see her all around you all the time. You're just not educated enough about physics to realize that.

I have a decent understanding of physics (though I'm hardly an expert) aaand no, no I do not.

Quote:I doubt she hated her baby. I think she was smiling because she enjoyed the attention.

Good for you.

(May 28, 2012 at 10:06 pm)Aiza Wrote: So the reason why you are so malicious toward her and eager to smear her is that she is, in fact, pro-life and believed her son's life was precious from the beginning, and hopes that other mothers may also treasure their children in this way?

Not malicious nor eager to smear her. She's put herself out there, and I am just voicing my opinion. The reason why my opinion is a harsh one is because she's exploiting her baby. Look, now you can buy a shirt: http://www.customink.com/designs/grayson...ven=social

I am 100% against using your dead baby to promote a pro-life agenda, so yes, I'm against her or anyone using guilt to get women to go through with a pregnancy that they don't want.

Quote:A mom who genuinely wants to kill her kid in utero will do it no matter what her blog says.

"Kill her kid"?????? Fuck off. It's called termination. Your precious fucking god does it to women who actually want their babies every day.

Quote:Ok so your whole argument is that she used the word "use" on her blog and therefore--she thinks her kid is a tool because we also use the word "use" on her blog.

That's part of my argument, yes. Not the whole argument.

Quote:Well call me a tool, because I also intend on using my life to serve others and God.

Okay then, You're a tool.

Quote:Um, does she say that God gave him "no brain"? I mean, maybe she did, but that would be an atypical Christian belief. Did she use terms like "sinful murderous bitch"? I think only one side here is using such judgmental language.

That's what kills me about xtians! If god isn't responsible for giving him no brain, then who the fuck is responsible?

Of course she didn't use that term, but it's implied. It's always implied.

Quote:Okay, and therefore all women are like you?

No, but as a pregnancy crisis counselor, I've had the opportunity to study and help many women. I've seen how they act in situations similar to this. I assure you it's abnormal.

Quote:Or all women should be more like you?

I've heard it said plenty of times, but I don't think I would like that very much, personally.

Quote:You seem very eager to talk about yourself, but you aren't in her shoes here, and even if you were, you are not her. She wanted everyone to get a chance to see her precious son like many proud parents would be, and of course she wants pictures to remember him by.

How am I talking about myself? I would've terminated the pregnancy. I respect her choice to have her baby, but I can't understand why she would pass him around like that. I understand wanting pictures, but go back and look at those pics. They're fucking sick, and if you can't see that, maybe you're sick.

Quote:Oh okay, so 24 hours is the official cutoff point for when smiling with a loved one no longer becomes "okay" (and in fact turns you into either a hateful monster or someone who 'enjoys attention').

LOL Ummmm... did I say that? I don't fucking think that I did. If you can't see when it is and isn't appropriate to be gleefully happy around a dying person, that's your own damn problem.

Quote: I have a decent understanding of physics (though I'm hardly an expert) aaand no, no I do not.

If you had a remote understanding of physics, you would know exactly what I am talking about. You would know that you do see her everywhere you look, but since you don't understand the basic laws of things like thermodynamics, you just think you don't see her everywhere you look. But you do. Really!

Quote:Good for you.

How so?

Please note that some of this thread has been moved to. http://atheistforums.org/thread-13107.html