(May 31, 2012 at 2:23 pm)Polaris Wrote: It inspires people to turn to faith.

(May 31, 2012 at 2:05 pm)whateverist Wrote:

(May 31, 2012 at 11:41 am)StatCrux Wrote: My point is that belief in the existence of God has been a source of inspiration for many great works of art, poetry, music etc. If you take away that belief you a losing a source of inspiration, would a prevalently atheist culture produce as much great works of art? Whenever I listen to atheists arguments, they always strike me as being a harsh, gloomy and empty way of seeing reality, Christopher Hitchens even admitted as much in one debate. This view of existence doesn't appear to be a good basis for inspiring great art.

You've got to remember that we atheists have much less in common than you Christians do. Atheism is a default category for those who don't believe in any of the particular gods that you all do. Atheism doesn't identify anything we have in common, just what we mutually lack. That doesn't mean we don't have anything going on or are dead inside, shocking as that may be to you. People here have myriad political positions, hobbies, jobs and passions. The only thing we have in common really is being inconvenienced occasionally by your lot.

Hitchens can't speak for me any more than any other atheist can. That job is best left to me. I approach many aspects of my life creatively as does my atheist-from-birth wife who makes her living as an artist. If there is any impediment to embracing both atheism and creativity/art, we just haven't found it.

Perhaps what you are thinking of is a kind of reverence that makes you feel very small and insignificant. I experience reverence and humility but nothing I experience makes me want to 'turn it all over to a higher power'. Self abdication is not the upshot of my reverie. So perhaps it is the sense that you are so unworthy and self-debasing which inspires a certain kind of art among theists which atheists are not drawn to make.

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Upon further reflection I wonder how much more you Christians really have in common. After all, it seems any Christian you ask will reject roughly half of all other Christians as not being the genuine, 'true' kind. Still nearly all of you think the bible lays out what you can expect from your genie, including an afterlife. Only the artistic among you seem to give any thought to how wondrous and mysterious your God is. Few of you tremble in fear. Most of you act like you have Him by the balls based on your acceptance of the terms of some contract which you think your 'belief' entitles you to.

Just off topic for a moment, can I ask why you feel the need to insult people so much? atheists in general that is, It seems to be a common trait in atheists..I try to take each individual on their own basis and don't feel to need to insult or try to trivialize their views. An argument should stand on its own merit with out the need to resort to insults, civility costs nothing..I mean "genie" what does that achieve? I accept that many Christians can be obnoxious but two wrongs don't make a right. Maybe I'm just over sensitive? too used to polite conversation.

Quote:My point is that belief in the existence of God has been a source of inspiration for many great works of art, poetry, music etc.

SO THE FUCK WHAT! You think your god has been the only one claimed that has lead to great art? Like I said, the ancient Egyptians built some beautiful monuments and painted pictures of lots of animals, people and their gods. Art being inspired by delusions of wishful thinking doesn't make ANY god in human history real.

Your pet deity claim DID NOT INVENT ART. Art has always been an expression of human imagination and DOES NOT need any god to be created by a human.

(May 31, 2012 at 6:47 am)StatCrux Wrote: I didn't use the word "essential" I said religion inspires people to create great works of art. Its the visible expression of connecting with the transcendent and luminous. Atheism creates a mindset that closes peoples minds to that aspect of existence and stifles creativity. Is it merely coincidence that the majority of great works of art, poetry, music etc are created from a mind that believes in some from of transcendent reality? While not "essential" it definitely is conducive to great works of art.

I am a little late to the party, but this personally insulted me. Hello, I'm a godless Graphic Designer (aka, I do commercial art). Want to know something funny? I was fine with being stagnant in my art as a theist. Last summer, however, something inspired me to pour all my passion and dedication into my work and make things I could truly be proud of. What to know what it was? The idea that there is no heaven, no hell, no afterlife. I get one life and I'll be damned if I don't make it count.

(May 31, 2012 at 7:08 am)StatCrux Wrote: I think this is related to life having a meaning and purpose. Anyone who thinks life has no meaning is unlikely to produce great art, unless of course it is depicting the meaningless nature of existence. Religious thinking sees meaning and purpose which is conducive to creating great art. The problem for the atheist is that ultimately life has no meaning. If you then say that you create your own meaning, that is the definition of delusional thinking, unless you truly believe in your own meaning..which is putting you in the realm of faith, faith in no God.

This also personally offended me. As atheists, we do not have an imposing figure to tell us the meaning of our lives. Actually, we are free to decide our own meanings. Your meaning is a god, my meaning is not. The meaning I have put to my life is to live as well, as happily and as kindly as I can. I want to make an impression of the world of graphic design and raise beautiful children with my lover. In my eyes, your meaning is artificial. It's handed to you by a book and a preacher. God cheapens life.

(May 31, 2012 at 8:52 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote:

(May 31, 2012 at 6:13 am)StatCrux Wrote: Christianity and religion have inspired great works of art, poetry and literature.

No they haven't. I can be argued that the only people who were wealthy enough to PAY for works of Art, Literature and Poetry WERE religion...in particular the Roman Catholic Church. aka "make it Religious and deifying my belief system or a0 you don't gwet paid b) You get thrown into prison or c) you get burned for a heretic. ..... either way you ARE DEAD!

While the burning wasn't as popular during the Renaissance, what she's saying is certainly true. The Roman Catholic Church was loaded and they were the only ones would would consistently commission (that means they would ask artists to create a specific kind of piece) artworks. In fact, they would only allow the sale of works that were dogmatic in nature.

(May 31, 2012 at 2:23 pm)Polaris Wrote: It inspires people to turn to faith.

No.

(May 31, 2012 at 2:25 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(May 31, 2012 at 10:58 am)Darwinian Wrote: Then don't compose your post as if it were an absolute fact then otherwise of course people are going to call you out.

Actually colour does not exist.

Quote:The first thing to remember is that colour does not actually exist… at least not in any literal sense. Apples and fire engines are not red, the sky and sea are not blue, and no person is objectively "black" or "white".

What exists is light. Light is real.


The grey tiles on the left look blue, and the grey tiles on the right look yellow You can measure it, hold it and count it (well … sort-of). But colour is not light. Colour is wholly manufactured by your brain.

How do we know this? Because one light can take on any colour… in our mind.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14421303

Yes, you could argue that nothing really exists other than in your brain, all that is really out there is a mass of atoms bouncing around, its only in your brain that any sense is made of them all. Maybe reality was created 1 second ago with the illusion of age, that can't be shown to be false either. But most people don't think that and most people live with the idea of colour being real too.

Well, seeing as atheism is the absense of belief, it's a bit of a void question, don't you think? However, the unique position/outlook attributed to atheists grants some pretty inspirational thinking, just regarding a different subject (the Universe/science, rather than the supernatural). Something to make you feel tiny: you are one person on a planet that holds nearly 7billion other people, and whose diameter is almost 13,000 kilometres. It would take 1.3million of this planet to fill up our host star, the Sun. However, there has been a star discovered called VY Canis Majoris, within which you could fit approx. 70quadrillion Earths. However, this is but one star in our galaxy (the Milky Way) which contains hundreds of billions of other stars. There are also hundreds of billions of other galaxies in the Universe, all of which contain hundreds of billions of stars. If that's not inspirational, I don't know what is.

Quote:yes, you could argue that nothing really exists other than in your brain, all that is really out there is a mass of atoms bouncing around, its only in your brain that any sense is made of them all. Maybe reality was created 1 second ago with the illusion of age, that can't be shown to be false either. But most people don't think that and most people live with the idea of colour being real too.

So we've gone from religious myth to si fi mental masturbation?

We are our brians, nothing more, and no, reality was not created 1 second ago. You could argue the moon was made of cheese too, but it would have as much credibility as any god claim.

"Prove it isn't true" is called shifting the burden of proof.

"Prove Allah isn't the one true god"
"Prove Yahweh isn't the one true god"
"Prove that their isn't a giant invisible teapot orbiting Jupiter"
"Prove to me that reality didn't start 1 second ago".

Anything you cannot replicate, test and falsify and have independently peer reviewed, will remain mere mental masturbation. Otherwise everything is true by default just because people have the ability to string words together in a sentence.

(May 31, 2012 at 2:23 pm)Polaris Wrote: It inspires people to turn to faith.

Not really.

(May 31, 2012 at 3:02 pm)Annik Wrote: The idea that there is no heaven, no hell, no afterlife. I get one life and I'll be damned if I don't make it count.

This is an argument I hear often and makes no logical sense. What do you mean exactly by "make it count" count for what? If this is it, nothing after, then this life is meaningless and any attempt to imbue any meaning is purely delusional, while it may make you feel better its ultimately living a pointless lie. Belief in God and eternal life gives meaning and purpose with consequence to our actions and lives, its internally coherent. Saying life has no meaning then creating meaning is internally incoherent. Faith and doubt are two sides to the same coin, the types who worry me are those with certainty, those who claim they are certain there is no God.

(May 31, 2012 at 2:23 pm)Polaris Wrote: It inspires people to turn to faith.

Whatever turned you to faith would never qualify as "inspiration".