Such as the song "God Bless the USA" used in a lot of school assemblies and "One Nation Under God" in the pledge of allegiance, or anything else that kind of embeds the idea of God in the mind of children?

Fucking god should be no where.

I'm in favor of getting god out of churches. Bastards are up to no good in those.

I think children should be taught about religion and theism just as with other subjects, so no. I am, however, against children being made to express belief in god(s) both explicitly and implicitly.

I think god should be taken back out of the pledge and using songs like God Bless the USA are actually not legal, as it (at the very least) promotes monotheism over polytheism. It's either all or nothing in this kind of situation. You either have to include every single religion or include none of them. I'm sure most would agree that nothing is a lot more simple and cost effective.

This is not to say that the religious couldn't tote their holy books around or form their own clubs. Religion isn't banned from school, but the school favoring a religion (as a part of the public school system) is not legal or right. I have heard Christians (just the most relevant religion to my area) state that their god should be allowed to flood the schools and take command. I can't believe they don't have the imagination to consider if an opposing religion was trying to do the same thing. They'd be made, spit fire, ect. But if they do, well that's okay!

If you want a religious education, go to a religious private school.

School shouldn't promote any belief system. Teach the kids what they need to know, let them decide what to believe themselves.

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(June 15, 2012 at 3:09 pm)Annik Wrote: I have heard Christians (just the most relevant religion to my area) state that their god should be allowed to flood the schools and take command.

Why does the fundy's idea of freedom always include chains?

(June 15, 2012 at 3:19 pm)Adjusted Sanity Wrote:

(June 15, 2012 at 3:09 pm)Annik Wrote: I have heard Christians (just the most relevant religion to my area) state that their god should be allowed to flood the schools and take command.

Why does the fundy's idea of freedom always include chains?

They don't know any other kind.

I don't think there should be any reference to god(s) outside a lesson teaching you about religion. In the UK, we have Religious Education, which is quite useful in educating people about various cultures, but it is nothing that couldn't be achieved in a "cultural education" class, with religion as a factor of a culture.

There's a difference between references to God and proselytizing. Should references to theft be eliminated in civics classes? "God" exists - it's the name of an entity that many people believe in, much like "Goldilocks". There's no reason to walk on eggshells to make sure that no one utters "God" under his breath anywhere within the boundaries of a class in which science is being taught.

But to teach that viruses have thoughts, or that life was created by some entity? Maybe as the belief of some, taught in a class on comparative religion, but not as a scientific theory in a science class. It's not scientific and it's not a theory.

@Tobie:
History? (The concept is responsible for a lot of it.) Physics? (The Higgs Boson will be called the God particle as long as English is spoken.) I think there are many classes in which the three-letter word "God" is permissible. I don't think there's any class in which proselytizing, or even assuming that everyone in the class agrees about religion (I often say that there are as many Christian sects as there are Christians), has any place unless the school is an arm of some religious organization.

(June 15, 2012 at 12:38 pm)Quoteunquot3 Wrote: Such as the song "God Bless the USA" used in a lot of school assemblies and "One Nation Under God" in the pledge of allegiance, or anything else that kind of embeds the idea of God in the mind of children?

"I pledge allegiance to my flag
and to the republic for which it stands,
one nation, indivisible,
with liberty and justice for all."

Original Pledge of Allegiance (1892)

I said no for reasons similar to Tempus and Colanth: students should learn about different religions and religious beliefs, so you can't excise all mentions of "God" from public education without erasing significant and important areas of study, even for atheists. (Know thy enemy, anyone?) It's also very difficult to understand certain portions of history without an understanding of the religious cultures that led to the events described, or to be able to read certain literature without understanding the religious beliefs of the culture it came out of.

Now, while in a perfect world, I don't think students should be made to sing songs or recite pledges that imply a belief in some supernatural entity, I don't favor trying to get rid of "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance or kicking "God Bless America" out of schools. This is a saving-the-bullets strategy; proposals of those sort tend to merely piss people off, and if I have to piss people off, I'd rather piss them off when it comes to things like making sure valid scientific theories are taught in science class, or making sure students get comprehensive sexual education, or prohibiting compulsory prayer. You know, things that matter more than the empty ritual that a daily recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance is. Seriously, how many students actually give a flying fuck what's in the Pledge, or see it as anything other than a mumbled piece of mumbo-jumbo that they have to get through before getting on with the day?