(June 17, 2012 at 4:54 am)hoppimike Wrote: Or maybe I'm just an open-minded agnostic?

Oh, be carefull opening your mind so much your brain falls off
Are your life so empty that you need to bask in the prospect of a fantasy world just to feel warm and fuzzy? Reality is much more interesting! Have you delighted yourself with a physics book, or gazing at the stars even with some binoculars? Perhaps understanding the intricancies of chemistry. Its easy to imagine a fantasy, what is hard is looking at misteries and work in them with critical thinking.

Quote:Is that really this difficult to grasp? >.<

You may not know this, but you aren't the first person that joined this forum claiming to be an atheist, just to magically convert a few days later. Its not the beliefs you have that are hard to grasp, but why would you lie.

Quote:And erm... I thought Corinthians and Mark were both written within 100 years of his death?

I think Minimalist know more about this than me. I'm not that specialized in history, so wait for his answer.

Quote:

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I watched some vids about DMT too and I must say it's amazing stuff and I think goes a long way to explaining at least the 4 minute NDEs. But what about people who come back after longer periods of being "dead"?

And man I really wanna take DMT lol

In some ways it's kinda sad though.. it seems to be able to trick you into thinking you're seeing the afterlife >.<

I'm sure people who actually die have DMT trips first too. Wow, how scary...

The illusion of an afterlife and then you die? That doesn't sound good >.<

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Drugs alter brain chemistry and can produce vivid experiences to its users, but that's it, just chemically induced sensations and thoughts. Our brains are fallible and easily tricked, that's why we have the scientific method, that is comprised of toold to objectively assess what is true to all of us and what is part of subjective experiences. If you look at the scientific papers on drugs, none speak of the personal effects (if you allucinate about god or an afterlife), the just tell you you suffer allucinations, along with the effects on other organs. Trying a drug to analise its experience is futile, you'd be better off reading literature about the brain.

(June 17, 2012 at 7:10 am)gringoperry Wrote: As for DMT, you really should try it. Make sure you're with an experienced user, though.

From what I've heard, DMT sounds like the most unappealing drug out there.

I mean "OMG! It feels like you're about to die!" No thanks!

and "OMG! You can like, totally watch yourself!" Really? Do I really want to watch myself sitting there monged out and dribbling? LOLNO.

(June 16, 2012 at 3:53 am)hoppimike Wrote: Honestly, my atheism is pretty damaged at the moment!! lol

After 11 years of 99% atheism... it's pretty bruised now O.O

Here are the main two videos that did it (the first is split into parts).

I'm very curious to hear if they shake anyone else! There were others too but these are the main ones!










... pretty intense, right?

I dunno what to make of it all to be honest but it's pretty amazing if you ask me!

I just want to know the truth that's all

Take care dudes,

Mike

No ...... my atheism is more supported ...that is all

(June 17, 2012 at 7:39 am)NoraBrimstone Wrote:

(June 17, 2012 at 7:10 am)gringoperry Wrote: As for DMT, you really should try it. Make sure you're with an experienced user, though.

From what I've heard, DMT sounds like the most unappealing drug out there.

I mean "OMG! It feels like you're about to die!" No thanks!

and "OMG! You can like, totally watch yourself!" Really? Do I really want to watch myself sitting there monged out and dribbling? LOLNO.

This is why I would only recommend its use under the instruction of an experienced user. There are different levels of effect, depending on how you ingest it. I was only ever brave enough to take a mild hit; however, I've heard stories that would blow your mind. The mild dose is pretty trippy on its own; with the added benefit that you can intensify it just by closing your eyes.

(June 16, 2012 at 4:30 pm)hoppimike Wrote: atheism is like a religion in itself (not true, but I can see where the confusion lies) because some people stick to it SO dogmatically!! Even when presented with good counter-evidence!

There is no good counter evidence.

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(June 16, 2012 at 11:07 pm)Undeceived Wrote: I do believe "religious scholar" qualifies. If not, have fun playing with your own rules.

Religious scholar = no credibility whatsoever, in terms of reality. Only qualified to talk with expertise about fictional stories.

If you were a scholar in Grimms Fairy Tales you'd have as much credibility as any religious scholar.

(June 16, 2012 at 10:29 pm)hoppimike Wrote: Oh dear.. slight digression xD

But yeah erm... that's true that Islam started some time after Christianity.

Yeah. So they just added the jeebus myth into their own horseshit.

Quote: I don't know if the religions existing there before it acknowledged Jesus as well. But Jews do acknowledge Jesus EXISTED on the whole, AFAIK.

So you are just asserting that without any support.

Quote:Muslims say he's an important prophet. I dunno, that's fairly reasonable evidence to me that he did at least exist,

No, it's not evidence at all.

Quote:especially when Corinthians is ALMOST contemporaneous. Mark isn't too far off, but I agree it's mega weird that there were no writings during his life o.O

A fairy tale story is not evidence of its own story.

Quote:When I mentioned "good counter-evidence" I really meant stuff like evidence for Jesus

ANd we asked then, and we do not: WHAT evidence??

Quote: (which a lot of atheists I know (certainly not everyone - every atheist is different, ofc) don't even seem to want to learn about at all, they just push it away!)

Some of us are all too familiar with it. Some of us cannot be bothered wallowing in fairy tales.

Quote:and NDEs (again, a lot of people push them away before even really knowing what things like DMT and hypoxia ARE... lol).

Perhaps "a lot of people" are not nearly as gullible and credulous as you.

Quote:Seems like... some people out there really WANT to believe. And some people out there really want NOT to believe...

Funny how you want to lump the credulous with reasoned and informed skeptics as if they were the same thing. It lets me know that you know your credulity is a Bad Thing.

Quote: and then you also get a fair number of people who simply want to know the truth, and try to push what they actually want in their minds to one side. I think the third way is the best way to be, IMO

The third way is how atheists are made.

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(June 16, 2012 at 10:57 pm)Undeceived Wrote:

(June 16, 2012 at 10:37 pm)Darwinian Wrote: Seems appropriate

Easy to say when you conveniently dismiss every NT book that does mention Jesus.

Fairy tales are not evidence.


The Harry Potter books are not evidence that Harry Potter really existed and was magical.

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(June 17, 2012 at 5:29 am)GhostofZeus Wrote:

(June 17, 2012 at 4:54 am)hoppimike Wrote: Or maybe I'm just an open-minded agnostic?

Is that really this difficult to grasp? >.<

And erm... I thought Corinthians and Mark were both written within 100 years of his death?

I watched some vids about DMT too and I must say it's amazing stuff and I think goes a long way to explaining at least the 4 minute NDEs. But what about people who come back after longer periods of being "dead"?

And man I really wanna take DMT lol

In some ways it's kinda sad though.. it seems to be able to trick you into thinking you're seeing the afterlife >.<

I'm sure people who actually die have DMT trips first too. Wow, how scary...

The illusion of an afterlife and then you die? That doesn't sound good >.<

Sure, so you're and open minded agnostic. Yet, in your question you write "11 years of 99% atheism, " accompanied by silly pro Christian videos. Based on the evidence you've submitted, you're either a liar or dumb. Nothing personal of course.

Or both....

(June 17, 2012 at 8:33 am)gringoperry Wrote:

(June 17, 2012 at 7:39 am)NoraBrimstone Wrote: From what I've heard, DMT sounds like the most unappealing drug out there.

I mean "OMG! It feels like you're about to die!" No thanks!

and "OMG! You can like, totally watch yourself!" Really? Do I really want to watch myself sitting there monged out and dribbling? LOLNO.

This is why I would only recommend its use under the instruction of an experienced user. There are different levels of effect, depending on how you ingest it. I was only ever brave enough to take a mild hit; however, I've heard stories that would blow your mind. The mild dose is pretty trippy on its own; with the added benefit that you can intensify it just by closing your eyes.

Thanks for your posts man they're really interesting - do you think that that cataplexy condition can explain all the cases of people thought to be dead who come back? O.O

And DMT wouldn't make you feel like you were about to die it would just give you a vivid, dream-like trip

Only similarity between that and death is you also get one before you die, which is weird I know.

What else erm... I guess most of this can be described with DMT other than the length of appearing "dead", but you could be right on that gringoperry

And I USED to be atheist, now I'm just open-minded and agnostic!

And fear of death isn't the reason I'm learning about this... possibly fear of a potential Hell, and yes Heaven does sound like a lovely thought, but I actually stumbled onto the religion topic from conspiracy theories - it wasn't planned!

(June 17, 2012 at 4:54 am)hoppimike Wrote: Or maybe I'm just an open-minded agnostic?

Is that really this difficult to grasp? >.<

And maybe you are a closed-minded theist pretending to be an agnostic who doesn't know what open-mindedness is:

Quote:And erm... I thought Corinthians and Mark were both written within 100 years of his death?

Sounds like you are a little too familiar with theist woo.

Quote:I watched some vids about DMT too and I must say it's amazing stuff and I think goes a long way to explaining at least the 4 minute NDEs. But what about people who come back after longer periods of being "dead"?

And man I really wanna take DMT lol

Yeah -- Dangerous drugs, religious delusion...not much difference there, really.

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(June 17, 2012 at 10:11 am)hoppimike Wrote: which is weird I

And I USED to be atheist, now I'm just open-minded and agnostic!

I don't believe you.

Quote:And fear of death isn't the reason I'm learning about this... possibly fear of a potential Hell, and yes Heaven does sound like a lovely thought, but I actually stumbled onto the religion topic from conspiracy theories - it wasn't planned!

Not convincing at all.

(June 17, 2012 at 8:33 am)gringoperry Wrote:

(June 17, 2012 at 7:39 am)NoraBrimstone Wrote: From what I've heard, DMT sounds like the most unappealing drug out there.

I mean "OMG! It feels like you're about to die!" No thanks!

and "OMG! You can like, totally watch yourself!" Really? Do I really want to watch myself sitting there monged out and dribbling? LOLNO.

This is why I would only recommend its use under the instruction of an experienced user. There are different levels of effect, depending on how you ingest it. I was only ever brave enough to take a mild hit; however, I've heard stories that would blow your mind. The mild dose is pretty trippy on its own; with the added benefit that you can intensify it just by closing your eyes.

Sounds cool, but I think I will stick with my opiates. I them.

(June 17, 2012 at 10:31 am)NoraBrimstone Wrote:

(June 17, 2012 at 8:33 am)gringoperry Wrote: This is why I would only recommend its use under the instruction of an experienced user. There are different levels of effect, depending on how you ingest it. I was only ever brave enough to take a mild hit; however, I've heard stories that would blow your mind. The mild dose is pretty trippy on its own; with the added benefit that you can intensify it just by closing your eyes.

Sounds cool, but I think I will stick with my opiates. I them.

hehe well that sounds cool too ^^