.... If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do.

---

(July 13, 2012 at 12:21 am)Drich Wrote: I pointed out that most (including mine) current life styles would not be possiable, if not for modern day slave labors.

You ASSERTED that bullshit. Your bald assertion does not make that bullshit true.


No more red herrings. Address the above verse from Exodus 21 or admit you and your fairy tale monster are scumbags.

(July 13, 2012 at 9:41 am)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote: .... If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do.

---

(July 13, 2012 at 12:21 am)Drich Wrote: I pointed out that most (including mine) current life styles would not be possiable, if not for modern day slave labors.

You ASSERTED that bullshit. Your bald assertion does not make that bullshit true.


No more red herrings. Address the above verse from Exodus 21 or admit you and your fairy tale monster are scumbags.

How is this not a red herring? This does not speak to anything that was said by me, to Brian37. from brian37, to me nor does it apply to anything said to you. where did this passage come from and to what does it address? Or again is this something you have interjected into the arguement that you feel you have a better chance of argueing?

Make no mistake I have your answer for you. I just need to hear you say that you are the one intorducing the red herrings into this thread, or provide some sort of proof your question of exo 21 is indeed a topical challenge.

(July 13, 2012 at 1:14 pm)Drich Wrote:

(July 13, 2012 at 9:41 am)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote: .... If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do.

---

You ASSERTED that bullshit. Your bald assertion does not make that bullshit true.


No more red herrings. Address the above verse from Exodus 21 or admit you and your fairy tale monster are scumbags.

How is this not a red herring? This does not speak to anything that was said by me, to Brian37. from brian37, to me nor does it apply to anything said to you.

Your equivocations at Brian are the red herring.

Quote: where did this passage come from and to what does it address?

Exo 21, as you acknowledge below, dumbass. In the same supposed conversation as the 10 commandments, right after them.I quoted the whole fucking thing earlier in this thread. Large bold print with bright red highlights so that only a drooling idiot could possibly fail to miss it.

Quote:Or again is this something you have interjected into the arguement that you feel you have a better chance of argueing?

It is dead on point with the OP, with Robertson's waffling, and with your absolutist assertion of what you call "gawd's law" vs. changing attitudes of men.

Quote:Make no mistake I have your answer for you. I just need to hear you say that you are the one intorducing the red herrings into this thread, or provide some sort of proof your question of exo 21 is indeed a topical challenge.

YOU ARE TRYING TO AVOID AT ALL COSTS THAT YOUR GOD ENDORSES KIDNAPPING HUMANS AND SELLING THEM INTO SLAVERY, AND A MAN SELLING HIS DAUGHTER INTO SLAVERY.

Your fairy tale monster is a scumbag. As are you for endorsing him and endorsing slavery.


Since you are such a twat and refuse to see what is right in front of you, I will repost the relevant verses in Exodus 20-21 that illustrate your scumbag god-figure's endorsement (and that of the scumbags who invented him, and the scumbags like you who endorse it) of slavery for the benefit of anyone who might be following this thread (If your past behavior is any indication, you will simply ignore it and go back to your slimy pit of red herrings).

Note the position of the commandments about slavery, right behind the famous "10 commandments" (included for context).

Quote:
Exodus 20


New International Version (NIV)
The Ten Commandments

20 And God spoke all these words:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.

4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

13 “You shall not murder.

14 “You shall not commit adultery.

15 “You shall not steal.

16 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

18 When the people saw the thunder and lightning and heard the trumpet and saw the mountain in smoke, they trembled with fear. They stayed at a distance 19 and said to Moses, “Speak to us yourself and we will listen. But do not have God speak to us or we will die.”

20 Moses said to the people, “Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning.”

21 The people remained at a distance, while Moses approached the thick darkness where God was.
Idols and Altars

22 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Tell the Israelites this: ‘You have seen for yourselves that I have spoken to you from heaven: 23 Do not make any gods to be alongside me; do not make for yourselves gods of silver or gods of gold.

24 “‘Make an altar of earth for me and sacrifice on it your burnt offerings and fellowship offerings, your sheep and goats and your cattle. Wherever I cause my name to be honored, I will come to you and bless you. 25 If you make an altar of stones for me, do not build it with dressed stones, for you will defile it if you use a tool on it. 26 And do not go up to my altar on steps, or your private parts may be exposed.’

Exodus 21


21 “These are the laws you are to set before them:

Hebrew Servants

2 “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free.

5 “But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ 6 then his master must take him before the judges.[a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life.

7 “If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself,[b] he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.


Personal Injuries

12 “Anyone who strikes a person with a fatal blow is to be put to death. 13 However, if it is not done intentionally, but God lets it happen, they are to flee to a place I will designate. 14 But if anyone schemes and kills someone deliberately, that person is to be taken from my altar and put to death.

15 “Anyone who attacks[c] their father or mother is to be put to death.

16 “Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession.

17 “Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.

18 “If people quarrel and one person hits another with a stone or with their fist[d] and the victim does not die but is confined to bed, 19 the one who struck the blow will not be held liable if the other can get up and walk around outside with a staff; however, the guilty party must pay the injured person for any loss of time and see that the victim is completely healed.

20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.

22 “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely[e] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

26 “An owner who hits a male or female slave in the eye and destroys it must let the slave go free to compensate for the eye. 27 And an owner who knocks out the tooth of a male or female slave must let the slave go free to compensate for the tooth.

28 “If a bull gores a man or woman to death, the bull is to be stoned to death, and its meat must not be eaten. But the owner of the bull will not be held responsible. 29 If, however, the bull has had the habit of goring and the owner has been warned but has not kept it penned up and it kills a man or woman, the bull is to be stoned and its owner also is to be put to death. 30 However, if payment is demanded, the owner may redeem his life by the payment of whatever is demanded. 31 This law also applies if the bull gores a son or daughter. 32 If the bull gores a male or female slave, the owner must pay thirty shekels[f] of silver to the master of the slave, and the bull is to be stoned to death.

33 “If anyone uncovers a pit or digs one and fails to cover it and an ox or a donkey falls into it, 34 the one who opened the pit must pay the owner for the loss and take the dead animal in exchange.

35 “If anyone’s bull injures someone else’s bull and it dies, the two parties are to sell the live one and divide both the money and the dead animal equally. 36 However, if it was known that the bull had the habit of goring, yet the owner did not keep it penned up, the owner must pay, animal for animal, and take the dead animal in exchange.

(July 13, 2012 at 1:57 pm)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:

(July 13, 2012 at 1:14 pm)Drich Wrote: How is this not a red herring? This does not speak to anything that was said by me, to Brian37. from brian37, to me nor does it apply to anything said to you.

Your equivocations at Brian are the red herring.

Quote: where did this passage come from and to what does it address?

Exo 21, as you acknowledge below, dumbass. In the same supposed conversation as the 10 commandments, right after them.I quoted the whole fucking thing earlier in this thread. Large bold print with bright red highlights so that only a drooling idiot could possibly fail to miss it.

Quote:Or again is this something you have interjected into the arguement that you feel you have a better chance of argueing?

It is dead on point with the OP, with Robertson's waffling, and with your absolutist assertion of what you call "gawd's law" vs. changing attitudes of men.

Quote:Make no mistake I have your answer for you. I just need to hear you say that you are the one intorducing the red herrings into this thread, or provide some sort of proof your question of exo 21 is indeed a topical challenge.

YOU ARE TRYING TO AVOID AT ALL COSTS THAT YOUR GOD ENDORSES KIDNAPPING HUMANS AND SELLING THEM INTO SLAVERY, AND A MAN SELLING HIS DAUGHTER INTO SLAVERY.

Your fairy tale monster is a scumbag. As are you for endorsing him and endorsing slavery.


Since you are such a twat and refuse to see what is right in front of you, I will repost the relevant verses in Exodus 20-21 that illustrate your scumbag god-figure's endorsement (and that of the scumbags who invented him, and the scumbags like you who endorse it) of slavery for the benefit of anyone who might be following this thread (If your past behavior is any indication, you will simply ignore it and go back to your slimy pit of red herrings).

Note the position of the commandments about slavery, right behind the famous "10 commandments" (included for context).

Quote:
Exodus 20


New International Version (NIV)
The Ten Commandments

20 And God spoke all these words:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.

4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

13 “You shall not murder.

14 “You shall not commit adultery.

15 “You shall not steal.

16 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

18 When the people saw the thunder and lightning and heard the trumpet and saw the mountain in smoke, they trembled with fear. They stayed at a distance 19 and said to Moses, “Speak to us yourself and we will listen. But do not have God speak to us or we will die.”

20 Moses said to the people, “Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning.”

21 The people remained at a distance, while Moses approached the thick darkness where God was.
Idols and Altars

22 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Tell the Israelites this: ‘You have seen for yourselves that I have spoken to you from heaven: 23 Do not make any gods to be alongside me; do not make for yourselves gods of silver or gods of gold.

24 “‘Make an altar of earth for me and sacrifice on it your burnt offerings and fellowship offerings, your sheep and goats and your cattle. Wherever I cause my name to be honored, I will come to you and bless you. 25 If you make an altar of stones for me, do not build it with dressed stones, for you will defile it if you use a tool on it. 26 And do not go up to my altar on steps, or your private parts may be exposed.’

Exodus 21


21 “These are the laws you are to set before them:

Hebrew Servants

2 “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free.

5 “But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ 6 then his master must take him before the judges.[a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life.

7 “If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself,[b] he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.


Personal Injuries

12 “Anyone who strikes a person with a fatal blow is to be put to death. 13 However, if it is not done intentionally, but God lets it happen, they are to flee to a place I will designate. 14 But if anyone schemes and kills someone deliberately, that person is to be taken from my altar and put to death.

15 “Anyone who attacks[c] their father or mother is to be put to death.

16 “Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession.

17 “Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.

18 “If people quarrel and one person hits another with a stone or with their fist[d] and the victim does not die but is confined to bed, 19 the one who struck the blow will not be held liable if the other can get up and walk around outside with a staff; however, the guilty party must pay the injured person for any loss of time and see that the victim is completely healed.

20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.

22 “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely[e] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

26 “An owner who hits a male or female slave in the eye and destroys it must let the slave go free to compensate for the eye. 27 And an owner who knocks out the tooth of a male or female slave must let the slave go free to compensate for the tooth.

28 “If a bull gores a man or woman to death, the bull is to be stoned to death, and its meat must not be eaten. But the owner of the bull will not be held responsible. 29 If, however, the bull has had the habit of goring and the owner has been warned but has not kept it penned up and it kills a man or woman, the bull is to be stoned and its owner also is to be put to death. 30 However, if payment is demanded, the owner may redeem his life by the payment of whatever is demanded. 31 This law also applies if the bull gores a son or daughter. 32 If the bull gores a male or female slave, the owner must pay thirty shekels[f] of silver to the master of the slave, and the bull is to be stoned to death.

33 “If anyone uncovers a pit or digs one and fails to cover it and an ox or a donkey falls into it, 34 the one who opened the pit must pay the owner for the loss and take the dead animal in exchange.

35 “If anyone’s bull injures someone else’s bull and it dies, the two parties are to sell the live one and divide both the money and the dead animal equally. 36 However, if it was known that the bull had the habit of goring, yet the owner did not keep it penned up, the owner must pay, animal for animal, and take the dead animal in exchange.

Compelling case but enough with the large red writing already. Some of us are getting headaches from that shit. Just put it in bold and underline it, that will make it stand out more than enough.

(July 13, 2012 at 1:57 pm)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote: Your equivocations at Brian are the red herring.

Which ones? Everything stated directly answers a question HE ASKS!

Quote:Exo 21, as you acknowledge below, dumbass. In the same supposed conversation as the 10 commandments, right after them.I quoted the whole fucking thing earlier in this thread. Large bold print with bright red highlights so that only a drooling idiot could possibly fail to miss it.

So?

It is dead on point with the OP, with Robertson's waffling, and with your absolutist assertion of what you call "gawd's law" vs. changing attitudes of men.[/quote]
I'll say it simple AGAIN because it seems you missed the first dozen or so times. What God identifies as slavery and what we know to be slaver are two different things. Robertson is condemed in a link I left for say this very thing!

The OP's clip was edited short to take a portion of what robertson said out of context to support an unsubstanited conclusion. This conclusion I identified in the first page or so as being slanderous as robertson did not say anything that the OP orginally reported, or was supposedly had been recorded as saying.

Quote:YOU ARE TRYING TO AVOID AT ALL COSTS THAT YOUR GOD ENDORSES KIDNAPPING HUMANS AND SELLING THEM INTO SLAVERY, AND A MAN SELLING HIS DAUGHTER INTO SLAVERY.

So what? I am the one saying that not all slavery is bad. That means for me if God allows a provision for selling your daughter and you are an OT Jew who wants to sell your daughter then by all means sell your daughter with God's and (what it's worth) my blessings!!!!

Quote:Your fairy tale monster is a scumbag. As are you for endorsing him and endorsing slavery.

YES! For I have said 1000 times now. Not all slavery is bad all of the Time!!!!!!!!![b] WE LIVE IN A SOCEITY BUILT ON SLAVE LABOR!!! MODERN DAY SLAVES! My post to Brian and to you listed several examples. but it seems you are more intrested in you next responce than reading what was written to you. Which is why i ignored you on the .com version of this web site. I do not have the time to waist on people who do you read what was carfully written to them.


You seem to be about 6 pages behind everyone else (like always) Maybe ask one of your peers to help you catch up.

Drich Wrote:So what? I am the one saying that not all slavery is bad. That means for me if God allows a provision for selling your daughter and you are an OT Jew who wants to sell your daughter then by all means sell your daughter with God's and (what it's worth) my blessings!!!!

I have nothing to add by way of conversation except to say that's fucked up.

I love how they twist words to downplay that ownership of another human was a social norm back then. "Servant" vs "slave" didn't make you less owned.

The person owned had no say, male or female, the owner did, even if there was an opportunity for the owned person to be set free, that was the OWNER'S CHOICE. Once again, like the god of the bible, the "servant" or "slave" owner did not owe shit to the person they owned, there was no consent. Just like God doesn't owe you an explanation for any shit that happens to you, good or bad.

This is just as absurd as when I argued with a Christian about Malichi 2.3 "Behold, I will corrupt your seed and spread dung upon your faces".

He pulled the same crap, "No no no, that is the KJV version, the NIV uses the word refuse(trash)"

My response, "Ok, shit or trash, take your pick, you are saying your loving god would rub your face in it like a dog who peed on your carpet?"

"Servant" and "slave" is still an owned person. Those such named in the bible are not like a butler in a modern mansion. The butler can quit their job and does not need the consent of the mansion owner.

(July 13, 2012 at 3:47 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

Drich Wrote:So what? I am the one saying that not all slavery is bad. That means for me if God allows a provision for selling your daughter and you are an OT Jew who wants to sell your daughter then by all means sell your daughter with God's and (what it's worth) my blessings!!!!

I have nothing to add by way of conversation except to say that's fucked up.

Are you an Old testament Jew? Then who are you to Judge?

I don't know if you been following all of my posts here but I sight an example of modernday slavery. In that I had a friend and where He was from people lined up to sign on to a company who conscibed slaves. They and their familes were made to work till they could no longer meet quotas and then were dismissed. People in this country were in line for years waiting to be called. Why? Because it was Far better than living in cardboard boxes eating from the local (3rd world country/where the poor deposited their dead) landfills.

Now Imagine a time where their was absolutly No regulation on this type of activity, and yet people were selling themselves and their loved family members into a chance of a better life! So yes Bless/Aplaude the efforts of God, and the OT Jews for maintaining this standard in the face of popular morality!

I not some trained monkey who hears or see a morally objectional trigger word and sheepeople my way into conformity. (That is a form of slavery itself) If you think all slavery is bad all the time then shame on you for not understanding people outside of your social class. this is an elitest attitude that needs to stop! Because you people have no issue living a life that is supported by slavery, you just don't want to acknoweledge them or their contrabution to modern soceity.

Quote:I have nothing to add by way of conversation except to say that's fucked up.

Drich Wrote:So what? I am the one saying that not all slavery is bad. That means for me if God allows a provision for selling your daughter and you are an OT Jew who wants to sell your daughter then by all means sell your daughter with God's and (what it's worth) my blessings!!!!

Oh, so NOW your fairytale monster's law only applies to OT Jews and not everyone else?


Congratulations , idiot. You have just destroyed your entire charade here, kit and kaboodle. You have stubbornly maintained the primacy and inerrancy of your fairytale monster's law (meaning, really, of those OT jews who invented it), and now you cherry pick it and claim it only applies to OT jews.


Well done. You have revealed yourself for the colossal hypocrite we all knew and have been telling you that you are. Bravo.

---

[

Drich Wrote:Are you an Old testament Jew? Then who are you to Judge?

And who are you to cherry pick YOUR fairytale monster's law?

You have maintained ad nauseum that your gawd's law is non-negotiable. Now you destroy yourself.

And if a you say, Genesis 21 only applies to OT jews, then SO DOES GENESIS 20. And THAT is your precious 10 commandments. Your story has your god laying down all this horseshit about slavery IN THE SAME BREATH as your absolute foundational tenets, with no separation or delineation between the two. I cannot stress enought how badly you have torpedoed yourself here.

(July 13, 2012 at 3:43 pm)Drich Wrote: Not all slavery is bad all of the Time!!!!!!!!![b] WE LIVE IN A SOCEITY BUILT ON SLAVE LABOR!!! MODERN DAY SLAVES!

Not *all* slavery is bad *all* of the time? Which forms of slavery do you find to be acceptable? At which time is slavery anything other than an immoral pursuit to gain dominance over an unwilling human being?
It is true that forms of slavery still exist but I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who says they're not all disgraceful.
Explain yourself.