So with Ryantology's statement in mind, I will ask you again. Can you provide non-circular evidence that god exists?

(July 16, 2012 at 5:28 pm)CliveStaples Wrote: Well, that's a fine opinion. Let me give an equally-supported one:

"Arguments about whether God exists provide nothing for actual knowledge. God obviously exists; atheist discussions are pretty much equal to a masturbation circle."

Since everything you claim to know and have evidence for depends crucially on your epistemology, I'd think that you'd be more interested. You know, if you were an actual skeptic, instead of just a pretend one.

When have I said I was a sceptic? (I am one, but you weren't to know that). I have never debated with you. You assume far too much.

I trust my memory because it is all I have to go on. As soon as you realise that the better. You are using your memory to talk about your memory. How can you begin to doubt something that you would need to doubt it? Blah, this can't be good for my sanity.

As for discussions about the existence of god, I see as equally pointless. Your "God obviously exists" doesn't have a parallel in anything I said... so I fail to see what you meant by that.

This is why I hate philosophy... you can argue about anything. Mental masturbation gets you nowhere.

I dabbled in philosophy, I had my fun with it. Back to reality now.

Well, even the philosophical circle can be broken, because even if my recall of the past is completely deluded, this fact in no way enhances the likelihood of God's existence. Very likely, it would just mean that we're both wrong.

I would just like to point out that every time I have pressed any theist on this board for evidence of the existence of god, I have been completely ignored. They don't even try to dance around it. They just ignore it. What does that tell us?

That the reality of the past is an illusion and you've never actually pressed a theist for the existence of god!

(July 16, 2012 at 5:53 pm)KnockEmOuttt Wrote: I would just like to point out that every time I have pressed any theist on this board for evidence of the existence of god, I have been completely ignored. They don't even try to dance around it. They just ignore it. What does that tell us?

I've presented proofs of my own on different threads. However, I don't rely on those arguments for my personal faith.

(July 16, 2012 at 5:53 pm)KnockEmOuttt Wrote: I would just like to point out that every time I have pressed any theist on this board for evidence of the existence of god, I have been completely ignored. They don't even try to dance around it. They just ignore it. What does that tell us?

Get used to it, man.

(July 16, 2012 at 6:00 pm)frankiej Wrote:

(July 16, 2012 at 5:53 pm)KnockEmOuttt Wrote: I would just like to point out that every time I have pressed any theist on this board for evidence of the existence of god, I have been completely ignored. They don't even try to dance around it. They just ignore it. What does that tell us?

Get used to it, man.

I'm used to it, I just wanted to point it out for the record. It needs to be noted.

Here is a good argument against God:

If there was a benevolent Creator, there would not exist unnecessary suffering or suffering that would not bring about a greater good.
There exists suffering that is unnecessary and doesn't bring about a greater good.
Therefore a benevolent Creator does not exist.

Here is an argument for God:

1. Objective Greatness Exists.
2. For Objective Greatness to exist, all possible levels and instances of Greatness must be known.
3. Only Ultimate Greatness can know Ultimate Greatness and infinite potential levels and instances of greatness.
4. Therefore God exists.

As for 2, I've argued elaborately why in another thread. I think it was called "Justice, morality, greatness, do these things prove God".

(July 16, 2012 at 6:18 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Here is a good argument against God:

If there was a benevolent Creator, there would not exist unnecessary suffering or suffering that would not bring about a greater good.
There exists suffering that is unnecessary and doesn't bring about a greater good.
Therefore a benevolent Creator does not exist.

Here is an argument for God:

1. Objective Greatness Exists.
2. For Objective Greatness to exist, all possible levels and instances of Greatness must be known.
3. Only Ultimate Greatness can know Ultimate Greatness and infinite potential levels and instances of greatness.
4. Therefore God exists.

As for 2, I've argued elaborately why in another thread. I think it was called "Justice, morality, greatness, do these things prove God".

That is speculation. That is not evidence.