Got this from a theist. Having a hard time deciphering the meaning behind this. Can anyone help what the writer actually means? Looks like "this and that" and god-of-the-gaps, therefore GOD!

Quote:Faith and reason decide what is true. What we know to be true by using our reason and what we believe to be true in faith cannot contradict each other. The supernatural gift of divine faith goes beyond reason (although they do not go against reason). It stands by itself as an independent way of knowing something. Yet it is not the same as direct knowledge about something. It is like knowledge because it states that things really are a certain way. Yet it is often uncertain about why things are this way or how they can be this way.

The believer, therefore must continue to think and use reason to answer the objections that reason itself brings up. Faith then is not the result of an argument; it is not caused by reasoning. It is a supernatural gift from God. And yet a lot of reasoning comes before it and continues inside of it.

Faith in God is knowledge but is not based upon argument or analysis. It "surpasses" the strength of belief given by rational arguments or analysis, and transcends it. However reasoning doesn't contradict it. It is given by God, it's not acquired through analytic thinking.

If faith is a supernatural gift from god, and I don't have any, then isn't god's fault? Reason would suggest that, now wouldn't it?

(July 17, 2012 at 6:48 pm)aleialoura Wrote: If faith is a supernatural gift from god, and I don't have any, then isn't god's fault? Reason would suggest that, now wouldn't it?

If it's a gift given on conditions, then not necessarily. If it's a reward for certain level of goodness for example, then you can be blamed for not acquiring that. It can still be called a "gift" if the goodness doesn't deserve such a reward, but God appreciates the good enough to reward it.

I don't believe this myself, being a Deist, I don't believe God interferes with our beliefs or choices. Nor do I believe all believers in God have earned more good then all disbelievers in God.

(July 17, 2012 at 6:31 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Faith in God is knowledge but is not based upon argument or analysis. It "surpasses" the strength of belief given by rational arguments or analysis, and transcends it. However reasoning doesn't contradict it. It is given by God, it's not acquired through analytic thinking.

The fact that dilusion may seem more real than reality, or has been affirmed by an construct whose creation was psychosomatic triggered to rationalize the dilusion, doesn't make it real.

Faith is not based on evidence. Another word for 'faith' is 'superstition'

The Abrahamic faiths are based on the mythology and superstitions of an illiterate tribe of bronze age goat herders.

To the OP. Reminds me of the current state of youth athletics in the U.S. We can't officially keep score any longer. To do so would be detrimental to the losers' 'you are special' psychology. Just because you tried and great effort, doest not mean that you are now special and deserve a feast of pizza and ice cream after every game. This fountain of joy drowns my sensibilities. The kids aren't stupid. They can count each goal, each run, each basket, (pick the description of your sport's method of differentiating and insert it here).

Intelligent faith proponents want to conflate the definitions of faith and reason for the simple fact that the faith-botherers don't want to lose the argument. Reasonable people of faith must use reason in their daily lives, they just don't want it invoked when considering the more mundane parts of thier lives.

Quote:Faith and reason decide what is true. What we know to be true by using our reason and what we believe to be true in faith cannot contradict each other. The supernatural gift of divine faith goes beyond reason (although they do not go against reason). It stands by itself as an independent way of knowing something. Yet it is not the same as direct knowledge about something. It is like knowledge because it states that things really are a certain way. Yet it is often uncertain about why things are this way or how they can be this way.

The believer, therefore must continue to think and use reason to answer the objections that reason itself brings up. Faith then is not the result of an argument; it is not caused by reasoning. It is a supernatural gift from God. And yet a lot of reasoning comes before it and continues inside of it.

Translation: Reason tells me my beliefs are bullshit, so i am going to do some convoluted mental gymnastics to tell myself that faith, which is merely the expression of my desire for my beliefs to be true, is a viable source of knowledge.

(July 17, 2012 at 7:00 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(July 17, 2012 at 6:48 pm)aleialoura Wrote: If faith is a supernatural gift from god, and I don't have any, then isn't god's fault? Reason would suggest that, now wouldn't it?

If it's a gift given on conditions, then not necessarily. If it's a reward for certain level of goodness for example, then you can be blamed for not acquiring that. It can still be called a "gift" if the goodness doesn't deserve such a reward, but God appreciates the good enough to reward it.

Then it's not a "gift", but a reward.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gift

(July 17, 2012 at 9:41 pm)aleialoura Wrote: Then it's not a "gift", but a reward.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gift

Hmm...true enough. Then it would be God's fault.