The problem is that it is not the aggregate behavior of the country, so much as the aggregate behavior of those of a particular mindset. There is no doubt that we have a shitload of loathsome hillbillies making it their business to hate everyone and treat kids like shit. The seemingly universal idea that this is an "American" thing, however, makes me uncomfortable. There are enough of us up and over here that don't feel that way to make a big difference. People are just less likely to notice a bunch of people saying, "Don't beat your kids" than those saying, "Hell, yeah, judge. Make the little bitch pay!"

This reminds me of a rather heated discussion I found myself in once. It was regarding corporal punishment and children. I said that there was such a fine line between shocking a kid into listening and physically harming them that I choose not to use spanking or slapping as discipline. I find the idea of striking a child nauseating. Now, I have said that in a very extreme circumstance, such as a child needing a quick shock back into reality, maybe a panicking child that is about to drag me under water or something, I might have to act fast, but still, it would have to be a very extreme and unlikely scenario. Well, long story even longer, a bunch of women jumped all over me. I mean, they seemed pissed that I don't like the idea of hitting kids. It was so absurd. It seems like those doing the imposing are always the ones most easily offended. Anyway, that seems like the norm in many places, sure. It still does not make it "America." The day it is federal law is the day that it is "America."

I should also point out that there is as much self-righteous "Be good or else" shit going on too. It's funny that even "good" can be taken to far too extreme and imposing levels. The very concept of freedom rails against such extremism, but hey, we have to feel good about ourselves somehow.

(August 7, 2012 at 6:40 pm)cato123 Wrote: Fuck that. I graduated from Orange Park.

Really? I was born at Jax NAS and spent a good part of the 60s in Orange Park. It wasn’t much more than wide spot in the road then. A niece and a nephew graduated from Orange Park. Would have been late 90s early 00s timeframe for them.


Oh and Pops raced there....

http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f158/p...20039A.mp4

(August 7, 2012 at 9:25 pm)Shell B Wrote: I would never disagree with that, hence my statement that it is not "America," but Utah. Were it a universal law that you could abuse children for relatively small indiscretions in the United States, federal law, in other words, I never would have said that. If you can separate states into two types, if one thing is only typical of one type, you cannot say it is "America," so much as whatever it is that differentiates it from the other states. There is no execution in my state. There is no child abuse in court rooms. We have good health care. We're not perfect, but this sure isn't Utah, Texas, Kentucky, Tennessee, etc.

Yeah - although in the relatively "enlightened" state of Pennsylvania we had this not too long ago.

Quote:http://abcnews.go.com/US/mark-ciavarella...d=12965182

Quote: A former juvenile court judge in Pennsylvania could face more than 10 years in prison after being convicted in what prosecutors called a "kids for cash" scheme.

Prosecutors say former Luzerne County Judge Mark Ciavarella used children as pawns, locking them up unjustly in a plot to get rich. Ciavarella is accused of taking nearly $1 million in kickbacks from owners of private detention centers in exchange for placing juvenile defendants at their facilities, often for minor crimes.

Yeah, that isn't really the law, though. That is one corrupt judge and a piss-poor system of checks in place, I would say. The only hope we can have is that the kids were placed in relatively decent facilities.

(August 7, 2012 at 5:54 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(August 7, 2012 at 5:29 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Ahem, the northwest is also quite livable, thankyouveryfuckingmuch.

Hehe, I know. It's the only other place I have ever lived. I was in Washington for three years.

I've lived within 25 miles of the spot I'm currently seated in for pretty much my entire life, excepting the first five years of my life (SF Bay area) and my time in the army (mostly KY and AL). I've traveled throughout most of the country, with the exception of much of the the east coast and New England (which is on my list of places to visit before I die).

I can't really imagine living many other places. New England does seem charming, though.

Quote:The only hope we can have is that the kids were placed in relatively decent facilities.

Corporate whores who bribe judges don't seem like they would be overly concerned with the kids.

(August 7, 2012 at 11:34 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: I've lived within 25 miles of the spot I'm currently seated in for pretty much my entire life, excepting the first five years of my life (SF Bay area) and my time in the army (mostly KY and AL). I've traveled throughout most of the country, with the exception of much of the the east coast and New England (which is on my list of places to visit before I die).

I can't really imagine living many other places. New England does seem charming, though.

I've traveled the bulk of the country too. I had an itch to move around in my late teens and early twenties. Once I got back home, I realized that I didn't want to leave again.

New England is charming. We've got vast expanses of forests, culturally sound cities, shores for miles and towns dedicate purely to the celebration of doing members of the same sex. Oh, and shopping. There is always shopping in those dang gay towns.

---

(August 7, 2012 at 11:44 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:The only hope we can have is that the kids were placed in relatively decent facilities.

Corporate whores who bribe judges don't seem like they would be overly concerned with the kids.

I can't argue with that. State standards might have at least kept that in check. The kids might stand to get settlements out of it. No silver lining by a long shot, but at least the guy was nailed so they have a shot.

(August 7, 2012 at 10:28 pm)popeyespappy Wrote: Really? I was born at Jax NAS and spent a good part of the 60s in Orange Park. It wasn’t much more than wide spot in the road then. A niece and a nephew graduated from Orange Park. Would have been late 90s early 00s timeframe for them.


Oh and Pops raced there....

Yep. And after the short season at Orange Park all the loving dog owners would take thier greyhounds down to Bayard.

I was actually in the first class from Orange Park that didn't get to use the Orange Park Kennel Club for graduation. The previous class apparantly brought too many tennis balls to the ceremony. If you are sincere then you will also remember that the Windrifter was just across the street.

Ah yes, the Windrifter. The Best Western hotel bar where older ladies fulfilled thier Top Gun fantasies with pilots that flew the P-3. Let's just say that I received a first class education at the Windrifter. After all, there weren't enough pilots to go around and the ladies proved that being a pilot wasn't the prmary qualification.

(August 8, 2012 at 12:37 am)cato123 Wrote:

(August 7, 2012 at 10:28 pm)popeyespappy Wrote: Really? I was born at Jax NAS and spent a good part of the 60s in Orange Park. It wasn’t much more than wide spot in the road then. A niece and a nephew graduated from Orange Park. Would have been late 90s early 00s timeframe for them.


Oh and Pops raced there....

Yep. And after the short season at Orange Park all the loving dog owners would take thier greyhounds down to Bayard.

I was actually in the first class from Orange Park that didn't get to use the Orange Park Kennel Club for graduation. The previous class apparantly brought too many tennis balls to the ceremony. If you are sincere then you will also remember that the Windrifter was just across the street.

Ah yes, the Windrifter. The Best Western hotel bar where older ladies fulfilled thier Top Gun fantasies with pilots that flew the P-3. Let's just say that I received a first class education at the Windrifter. After all, there weren't enough pilots to go around and the ladies proved that being a pilot wasn't the prmary qualification.

lol! I wouldn't remember much about bars as we left in 68 when I was 6. I've been back a couple of times because my ex's brother lived there, but I've never been to the track. Pops was adopted in Nashville after his broke his leg there.

You can look him up here but I think you have to register for free to access the page that lists his races. He ran 15 races at Jacksonville and another 36 races at Orange Park. It shows him as pulled up in the last race because that's when he was injured. He had already broken a different leg at Bluff's Run before they shipped him off to Florida.

(August 7, 2012 at 9:37 pm)Shell B Wrote: It seems like those doing the imposing are always the ones most easily offended.

(snipped for brevity, lol, hope you don't mind)

They probably interpreted your position on the issue as a direct indictment of their personal actions. Fairer sex indeed, abusive bunch of baby punchers.....