(August 26, 2012 at 2:30 pm)spockrates Wrote: In what way does an inherent omniscience (which is not total) abrogate freewill?

In that it is not omniscience, but a desperate attempt to salvage a shitty attribute. Drop the word and you can have free will. Drop the notion that this creature can see future "choices" (drop the notion that it is even possible) and you can have free will, till then I'm just going to keep reminding you.

(omniscience is just too important...isn't it..lulz)

(August 26, 2012 at 3:23 pm)Stimbo Wrote:

(August 26, 2012 at 2:30 pm)spockrates Wrote: I can't agree more. Star Trek (TNG) cannot hold a candle to the 52 episodes of Star Trek (TOS).

Then I really have to ask why you chose to portray yourself as Zachary Quinto rather than the immortal and pioneering Nimoy, impressive as the recasting was?

By the way, there were eighty episodes of proper Star Trek (I hate the term TOS, sorry) including the first pilot, followed by twenty-two episodes of the vastly underrated Filmation animated series and of course six and a half films.

I stand corrected.

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(August 26, 2012 at 5:03 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

(August 26, 2012 at 2:30 pm)spockrates Wrote: In what way does an inherent omniscience (which is not total) abrogate freewill?

In that it is not omniscience, but a desperate attempt to salvage a shitty attribute. Drop the word and you can have free will. Drop the notion that this creature can see future "choices" (drop the notion that it is even possible) and you can have free will, till then I'm just going to keep reminding you.

(omniscience is just too important...isn't it..lulz)

So you would have Christians accept a concept of God in which its omniscience trumps its omnipotence and omnibenevolence? Remember: The Christian believes her God is the most perfect being that exists. Please explain how a god who has neither the power (i.e., omnipotence) to control its omniscience, nor the caring desire (i.e., omnibenevolence) to control its omniscience is more perfect than one who does have the power and desire to limit its omniscience.

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It's not that hard to grasp, my friend. It's as simple as rock, paper, scissors!

:p

(August 26, 2012 at 6:01 pm)spockrates Wrote: I stand corrected.

I out-geeked Spock!

"This will be a day long remembered."

Oh no, wrong series; sorry. Just seemed to fit, somehow.

spockrates Wrote:I suppose what I wonder is what you mean by the word you when you say, "What I should have said is that your brain structure may predetermine which choices you will make when faced with different options."

So please let me ask again: Is the you your brain, or something other than your brain?

In this case the "you" is the part of your self that would hypothetically be responsible for exercising free will. That's what I mean when I ask does your brain structure control "you."

As for the question of whether we are our brains, that is actually something you have to answer yourself, because you are the one trying to prove that we have free will.

(August 26, 2012 at 6:17 pm)Stimbo Wrote:

(August 26, 2012 at 6:01 pm)spockrates Wrote: I stand corrected.

I out-geeked Spock!

"This will be a day long remembered."

Oh no, wrong series; sorry. Just seemed to fit, somehow.

Live long and choke on your geeky superiority, Stimbo. (Just kidding! I admit I was out geeked and congratulate you.)

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(August 26, 2012 at 6:26 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

spockrates Wrote:I suppose what I wonder is what you mean by the word you when you say, "What I should have said is that your brain structure may predetermine which choices you will make when faced with different options."

So please let me ask again: Is the you your brain, or something other than your brain?

In this case the "you" is the part of yourself that would hypothetically be responsible for exercising freewill. That's what I mean when I ask does your brain structure control "you."

As for the question of whether we are our brains, that is actually something you have to answer yourself, because you are the one trying to prove that we have free will.

But you have not answered the question. Have you? You see, when I asked you, "What do you mean by the word you?" I was asking, "What is the part of yourself that would hypothetically be responsible for exercising free will?"

You are saying, "That part of myself that would hypothetically be responsible for exercising freewill is that part of myself that is hypothetically responsible for exercising freewill." Rather than answer the question, you've simply repeated it!

Since you said the question is for you to know and me to find out, I'll hazard this guess: I'm thinking that the part of myself that would hypothetically be responsible for exercising freewill is that part of me that uses my brain to control my body. In other words, I am not my brain, though I use my brain to freely choose what my body says and does.

Now I could be wrong and I might be my brain. If so, I suppose my brain needs some convincing that she is me!

I even know that the pic you just posted of the great Vulcan philosopher Nimoy comes from the episode "Amok Time"; it comes straight after Spock thinks he's just killed Kirk in mortal combat. He's just been told to "Live long and prosper" by Carol Decker and the pop group T'Pau, to which the screenshot you posted depicts him replying "I shall do neither. I have killed my captain and my friend." That's why he looks a bit sad.

How geeky is that? And I used to have not just a girlfriend but a fianceé, a real actual woman!

(August 26, 2012 at 7:19 pm)Stimbo Wrote: I even know that the pic you just posted of the great Vulcan philosopher Nimoy comes from the episode "Amok Time"; it comes straight after Spock thinks he's just killed Kirk in mortal combat. He's just been told to "Live long and prosper" by Carol Decker and the pop group T'Pau, to which the screenshot you posted depicts him replying "I shall do neither. I have killed my captain and my friend." That's why he looks a bit sad.

How geeky is that? And I used to have not just a girlfriend but a fianceé, a real actual woman!

I made my wife watch the whole TOS.... When we started on the TNG, she gave it up.

(August 26, 2012 at 7:19 pm)Stimbo Wrote: I even know that the pic you just posted of the great Vulcan philosopher Nimoy comes from the episode "Amok Time"; it comes straight after Spock thinks he's just killed Kirk in mortal combat. He's just been told to "Live long and prosper" by Carol Decker and the pop group T'Pau, to which the screenshot you posted depicts him replying "I shall do neither. I have killed my captain and my friend." That's why he looks a bit sad.

How geeky is that? And I used to have a fianceé, a real actual woman!

I'm not worthy! I bow to your superior knowledge of all things geek!

I accept the honour! All I have to do now is work out if knowing all this stuff is a good or bad thing...

It is a good thing (to let that be known) if you believe humanity is in dire need of population control and you are anxious to do your part.


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