(August 31, 2012 at 5:44 am)CBA222 Wrote: Edit, you obviously haven't been a Christian before. Of course the gospel was written through the spirit.
The Following is what Christian's believe in, so don't give me any crap about whether it's true or not.

The people who wrote this books wrote it inspired by God's word. They took God's word and took it down. God is both the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It's quite possible God put the Holy spirit in them and that made them write it or it could be referring to himself, since he technically is also the Spirit. God is technically Jesus too.

End

You gave two verses, there are hundreds supporting that he called himself the Son of God.

Your last statement just supports mine. Both Christian and non-Chrisitan scholars support that Jesus existed. The vast majority does, and they AREN'T stupid.

CBA222,
So what if there was a guy called Jesus in Nazareth, Bethlehem or wherever he's reported to have been?
There were several such prophets, at the time. They came and went.
Let's say there was one that claimed the "make love not war" ideals. Great ideals at a time of some strife with the imposing romans and all the conflict arising from the different mythologies present... plus it was a sort of desert place where food is hard to come by. Peace was a much needed idea and this man brought it to them.
As far as I see it, odds are that he was just another man, just like you or me. A human being, who maybe had an intelligence a little above the average of the time and was thus hailed as a master or teacher. His own society "made" him jew, but he added a twist, a simplification and more humane rules, to the jew mythology which made people like him.
Years of earsay about the guy turned him into a messiah, virgin born, miracle maker, son of god.... and then someone wrote down this nonsense, someone else compiled just a few of these writings and you got the NT.

Now tell me how is this any less plausible than the end story that the guy was the son of said god and could perform all those miracles he's attributed.

And why do you come to an atheist forum claiming that "Of course the gospel was written through the spirit. The Following is what Christian's believe in, so don't give me any crap about whether it's true or not. The people who wrote this books wrote it inspired by God's word. They took God's word and took it down."?
It's in the same ballpark as going to a lumberjack and saying "Of course wood doesn't burn. It says so in this book that was inspired by the queen of mermaids."
You can't just believe something and claim it to be true to people who actively claim their lack of belief in such nonsense.

What I was saying was that they verses you mentioned were written by Christian authors who Themistocles believed the God was real and was simple explaining what those verses meant and why it contradicted your point. I am currently just trying to prove that a Jesus existed, not that he performed any miracles.

IF you believe that god exists, the whole bible is plausible.
If you remove that belief, every religion's claims become similar to fairy tales.

About Jesus, the man... maybe he did exist. Like I said above. Maybe he was just a normal human being who got elevated to god by the people. At the time, they had pharaohs who they believed to be gods, so why not?

This thread -- which I've just studied, as a newcomer to AF -- has been most entertaining. I hope that amusement value is the sole reason it's gone on ... and on ... and on. N

(August 31, 2012 at 6:50 am)CBA222 Wrote: What I was saying was that they verses you mentioned were written by Christian authors who Themistocles believed the God was real and was simple explaining what those verses meant and why it contradicted your point. I am currently just trying to prove that a Jesus existed, not that he performed any miracles.

Ah, you mean some jackass named Jesus sans magic? Not the same Jesus as the Jesus of scriptures. You can have your random non-magical Jesus. I like to imagine that a guy named Tom lived somewhere in the world a couple thousand years ago, personally.

(August 31, 2012 at 6:50 am)CBA222 Wrote: What I was saying was that they verses you mentioned were written by Christian authors who Themistocles believed the God was real and was simple explaining what those verses meant and why it contradicted your point. I am currently just trying to prove that a Jesus existed, not that he performed any miracles.

And I'm proving to you that your own Bible supports no such idea of a godman walking amongst us. You didn't address this whatsoever but instead said the Bible is god-inspired. How does that prove Jesus was human? It could be god-inspired and Paul + epistle bud(s) could STILL be writing about a spiritual Jesus like it seems they are.

Please explain why Paul + friends aren't referring to a spirit. Why does Paul say his gospel came from no man?

Cause Jesus was God, in Paul's opinion anyways.

He was also an apparition, in Paul's opinion.

True story Rhythm.

Paul is also a matter of opinion. So we're building opinion on myth by citing him as a source. Might as well call on Dr Watson to vouch for the historical existence of Sherlock Holmes. N