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RE: Where did the Jesus myth come from?
September 1, 2012 at 4:07 pm
(This post was last modified: September 1, 2012 at 4:08 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Suppose Plato was mythical Atom, then what? Now try the same with Christ (not that you've offered anything in support of Christ in the first place..but hey, I'm easy).
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Where did the Jesus myth come from?
September 1, 2012 at 4:11 pm
(September 1, 2012 at 2:05 am)Minimalist Wrote: Quote:Isn't Bart Ehrman no longer a Christian?
Correct. Close association with xtian bullshit convinced Ehrman that it was merely bullshit. Exactly! This is why Ehrman's claim that all serious historians believe Jesus was a real person has exceptional credibility. He and the other skeptical historians I quoted would be predisposed to the anti-Christian viewpoint.
Christianity is grounded in history, the facts of science, the rules of logic, and verifiable biblical truths.
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RE: Where did the Jesus myth come from?
September 1, 2012 at 4:19 pm
I'd prefer some evidence to this long running appeal to authority...personally.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Where did the Jesus myth come from?
September 1, 2012 at 4:20 pm
(This post was last modified: September 1, 2012 at 4:21 pm by Cyberman.)
(September 1, 2012 at 4:11 pm)Atom Wrote: Exactly! This is why Ehrman's claim that all serious historians believe Jesus was a real person has exceptional credibility. He and the other skeptical historians I quoted would be predisposed to the anti-Christian viewpoint.
And here, ladies and gentlefolk, we have the fulfillment of my prophecy made (you will note) no less then three days ago!
I Wrote:Step right up, folks, and be amazed to see the Mighty Atom turn "most scholars" into "most respectable scholars" before your very eyes! It's the marvel of the age! You simply will not believe what you're seeing!
Please, no worship. Just money.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Where did the Jesus myth come from?
September 1, 2012 at 4:50 pm
(August 28, 2012 at 7:16 pm)pocaracas Wrote: (August 28, 2012 at 6:49 pm)Atom Wrote: A good start would be to cite credible peer reviewed historical publications describing how acceptable historical practices lead to the conclusion that Jesus was a myth. That would give us something to discuss
Can you do the same for all your claims?
It's just that I've read somewhere that "most scholars agree that jesus never existed".
So your claim that "most scholars believe that jesus was a real person" leaves me thinking that someone is wrong. Since you took the time to write all those points, maybe you have all the "credible peer reviewed historical publications" describing why should we accept those points. I didn't make the claim, the non-christian scholars I cited beginning with Bart Ehrman made the claim for me. I'm relying on them because I obviously can't personally query 2000+ scholars. Some of the sources I cited included a link to the recording, or the book where you can get the authors' claims for yourself saying that their (non-Christians) peers are in consensus agreement that Jesus was a real person. I'm not relying on my own authority or making this assertion without evidence.
Christianity is grounded in history, the facts of science, the rules of logic, and verifiable biblical truths.
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RE: Where did the Jesus myth come from?
September 1, 2012 at 4:52 pm
(September 1, 2012 at 4:11 pm)Atom Wrote: (September 1, 2012 at 2:05 am)Minimalist Wrote: Correct. Close association with xtian bullshit convinced Ehrman that it was merely bullshit. Exactly! This is why Ehrman's claim that all serious historians believe Jesus was a real person has exceptional credibility. He and the other skeptical historians I quoted would be predisposed to the anti-Christian viewpoint.
And in the fashion of reductio ad absurdum, all "serious historians" don't believe in the resurrection or Jesus' deity, therefore, you shouldn't either. So why are you still a Christian, Atom?
My ignore list
"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
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RE: Where did the Jesus myth come from?
September 1, 2012 at 5:20 pm
(This post was last modified: September 1, 2012 at 5:20 pm by Atom.)
(September 1, 2012 at 4:52 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: (September 1, 2012 at 4:11 pm)Atom Wrote: Exactly! This is why Ehrman's claim that all serious historians believe Jesus was a real person has exceptional credibility. He and the other skeptical historians I quoted would be predisposed to the anti-Christian viewpoint.
And in the fashion of reductio ad absurdum, all "serious historians" don't believe in the resurrection or Jesus' deity, therefore, you shouldn't either. So why are you still a Christian, Atom? Professional historians writing for peer reviewed articles are prevented from concluding that Jesus was resurrected because of the assumption of naturalism that is an essential, and I would even say proper, part of their methodology. If the presupposition of naturalism is set aside, the resurrection can be deduced directly from the historical events acknowledge by most critical historians.
Christianity is grounded in history, the facts of science, the rules of logic, and verifiable biblical truths.
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RE: Where did the Jesus myth come from?
September 1, 2012 at 5:31 pm
(This post was last modified: September 1, 2012 at 5:32 pm by Cyberman.)
This may be a silly question, and it's the sort of thing that sometimes comes across as hostile, but do you have anything to back up the assertion that historians are "prevented" from reaching such conclusions for any reason at all, not just the reasons you gave? I hope you understand how that sounds like a conspiracy theory; in fact dangerously close to tinfoil-hat territory.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Where did the Jesus myth come from?
September 1, 2012 at 5:36 pm
Quote:Exactly! This is why Ehrman's claim that all serious historians believe Jesus was a real person has exceptional credibility
Exactly WRONG. Ehrman's claim would have credibility if he would produce the evidence which caused him to say so. Instead, he trots out the same tired old shit which he himself admits caused him to reject xtianity in the first place.
He cannot have it both ways. And neither can you.
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RE: Where did the Jesus myth come from?
September 1, 2012 at 5:47 pm
(September 1, 2012 at 5:31 pm)Stimbo Wrote: This may be a silly question, and it's the sort of thing that sometimes comes across as hostile, but do you have anything to back up the assertion that historians are "prevented" from reaching such conclusions for any reason at all, not just the reasons you gave? I hope you understand how that sounds like a conspiracy theory; in fact dangerously close to tinfoil-hat territory. No conspiracy is involved, methodological naturalism is one of the philosophical assumptions used for most scientific inquiry. You can read about it here.
Christianity is grounded in history, the facts of science, the rules of logic, and verifiable biblical truths.
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