As what a real ancient Chinese proverb says, He is trying to "muddy the water in the hopes of catching a fish by feel".

There is classical Chinese treatises, much more Machiavelli than SunTzu, called The Thirty Six Stratagems. It is a collection of stratagems for use gaining one's own ends using devious and underhanded tricks in politics, negotiation, infighting, and back stabbing. The above is one of them.

I highly recommend reading the Thirty Six Stratagems. It is much more useful than Art of War. Even Machiavelli would be humbled.

The thread theme is: better reasons to quit christianity. Its simple relativistic terms to an absolute belief. Astounding.

Anyone serious would ask for a reason, not a better reason.

Hey spock, want a reason? To believe in any god, its unnecessary to live my live!

(September 1, 2012 at 7:06 am)spockrates Wrote: Do you really still believe I'm trying to trick you into believing omniscience means to know less than all? You are smarter than that, my friend! There is no parlor trick here. If I actually had tried to tricked you, I'm sure you would have revealed by now how the trick was done.

The truth is, I've used no magician's secret and no slight of hand, but simply asked simple questions. All you have to do is answer truthfully what reason tells you: Is the fictional God in whom Christans believe really experienced?

There you go again, unable to continue arguing for the issue of contention you instead decide to fly off to some other garbage claims which will ultimately boil down to jack shit - just like everything about any god whatsoever-.

If the incompatibility of omniscience and free will were enough to prevent you from entertaining christianity you would not be a christian. End of. The two are incompatible.. even in in principle. You have excuses for this (that don't actually excuse it, but hey, whatevs), I'm not exactly surprised.

Has it ever occurred to you that you may not actually be looking to "rule out the impossible" at all...or even engage in any sort of productive logical discussion?

This is extremely simple - If the future can be known, the events of the future are predestined.

If your god -could- know the future and yet chooses not to (or does not, for whatever reason) this doesn't alter whether or not events are predetermined. If it is even possible to know future events, they are.
If it cannot, it is not omniscient, because there is at least one thing that it does not know (future events).

What part of this is giving you so much trouble?

Spockrates, I don't dogmatically hold to much doctrine. I'm studying the different perspectives right now. I'll mention that open theists generally hold that God doesn't know what will happen in the future because there's nothing there to be known (I think this is the A theory of time their forwarding).

Also, I think I've adequately shown that omniscience and free will can coexist in my thread entitled, "How Free Will and Omniscience Works". Perhaps you'll give it a look.


It should be no surprise Spock here is asking so many questions, he's using the spockratic method.

Answering the original question...
Just one stupid reason of the top of my head: imagine the world, the universe, with no god. Imagine your life with no god, but you pretending that there is, just like now. How different would that world be?

If there was no God I'd be doing it in the streets frightening the horses.

(September 1, 2012 at 7:38 pm)idunno Wrote: It should be no surprise Spock here is asking so many questions, he's using the spockratic method.

Oh is that what you call it?

I call it JAQing off

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/JAQing_off
(Credit to apophenia for that)

So that's what Sockrates was up to...what a sickie

(September 1, 2012 at 7:48 pm)idunno Wrote: If there was no God I'd be doing it in the streets frightening the horses.

You still have horses in your streets? That explains SO much

Seriously: Are you saying that without a belief in God you would lack both personal morality and a sense of propiety? By extension, that atheists are immoral and anarchic??

I hope not,because if that is the case,you and I are going have words.

(September 1, 2012 at 8:08 pm)padraic Wrote: Seriously: Are you saying that without a belief in God you would lack both personal morality and a sense of propiety?

If that is the case it would speak for more about his own morality than anyone else's.