(September 3, 2012 at 10:07 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote:

(September 3, 2012 at 9:59 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: A few pages ago you were saying that preaching to the Gentiles was started by PAUL!


Neither Peter nor Paul were confused about Jesus' explicit invocation (instigation) to preach The Kingdom to EVERYONE....(who was willing to listen.)

And this is a critical thing for strong atheists and anti-theists to note. The Great Commission is to make the effort to spread the Gospel - nothing more. If a person tries their (humble) best and fails to convince an atheist that the Christian message is true, they are not condemned for failure.

Nobody can be forced to accept evidence they claim is unconvincing.

I said "Paul or whoever." I couldn't remember. And then you said it was Paul too but I found the passage I was thinking of and it was Peter.

And now you're begging the question. You're assuming Jesus actually said to preach to everyone to prove that Jesus said to preach to everyone and that Paul and Peter were doing this because Jesus said so.

The great commission is completely anachronistic. Christianity started out as a Jewish movement. Just answer this: If Jesus really said to preach unto everyone, why was it controversial to preach unto everyone in early NT writings? Why didn't Peter just quote Jesus? Why'd he have to have a vision to legitimate what was already supposedly legitimated!?!?!

Who cares about the existence of religious controversy. (Not unheard of among Jews like the Disciples of Jesus.)

The point here is that the controversy was motivated by good intentions;
- where do we start?
- what's most important?
- who is the best person to do what?
- how do we best explain the message to new hearers?

The rationality of disbelieving the evidence on anything you don't want to accept isn't free thinking, it's mindlessness. Christians are accustom to condescension and verbal abuse from atheists, but at some point it would be nice if there were some rationale offered for rejecting the arguments given, instead of a barrage of arrogant declarations.

Thanks in advance.

(September 3, 2012 at 10:19 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: ...

Who cares about the existence of religious controversy. (Not unheard of among Jews like the Disciples of Jesus.)

The point here is that the controversy was motivated by good intentions;
- where do we start?
- what's most important?
- who is the best person to do what?
- how do we best explain the message to new hearers?

It wouldn't have been a controversy if Jesus, THE FOUNDER OF THE CULT, said it wasn't a problem!

Paul often started at the local synagogue as his first point of contact in a new town.

(September 3, 2012 at 10:20 pm)Atom Wrote: The rationality of disbelieving the evidence on anything you don't want to accept isn't free thinking, it's mindlessness. Christians are accustom to condescension and verbal abuse from atheists, but at some point it would be nice if there were some rationale offered for rejecting the arguments given, instead of a barrage of arrogant declarations.

Thanks in advance.

Please provide evidence that such things have taken place in this thread by me.

---

(September 3, 2012 at 10:23 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: Paul often started at the local synagogue as his first point of contact in a new town.

Synagogues are Jewish assemblies.

(September 3, 2012 at 10:21 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote:

(September 3, 2012 at 10:19 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: ...

Who cares about the existence of religious controversy. (Not unheard of among Jews like the Disciples of Jesus.)

The point here is that the controversy was motivated by good intentions;
- where do we start?
- what's most important?
- who is the best person to do what?
- how do we best explain the message to new hearers?

It wouldn't have been a controversy if Jesus, THE FOUNDER OF THE CULT, said it wasn't a problem!

Jesus brought controversy during His ministry - long before Paul met Him.
Well DUH!

(September 3, 2012 at 10:25 pm)Lion IRC Wrote:

(September 3, 2012 at 10:21 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: It wouldn't have been a controversy if Jesus, THE FOUNDER OF THE CULT, said it wasn't a problem!

Jesus brought controversy during His ministry - long before Paul met Him.
Well DUH!

Wait, why are talking about Paul? Peter had the vision. And he was supposedly a disciple of Jesus if I remember correctly.

I really doubt Jesus' Great Commission given in his resurrection body just before he floated up into the sky would have been a serious point of controversy!

The point I'm making is that the existence of controversy over how best to follow Jesus' invocation(s) is a red herring.

If Paul felt that his primary objective - his SPHERE - was preaching to the gentiles that still didnt preclude him visiting Synagogues.

(September 3, 2012 at 10:40 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: The point I'm making is that the existence of controversy over how best to follow Jesus' invocation(s) is a red herring.

If Paul felt that his primary objective - his SPHERE - was preaching to the gentiles that still didnt preclude him visiting Synagogues.

Again, Peter not Paul. And what does him in Synagogues have to do with anything about whether Jesus really said to preach to Gentiles?

(September 3, 2012 at 10:40 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote:

(September 3, 2012 at 10:25 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: Jesus brought controversy during His ministry - long before Paul met Him.
Well DUH!

Wait, why are talking about Paul? Peter had the vision. And he was supposedly a disciple of Jesus if I remember correctly.

I really doubt Jesus' Great Commission given in his resurrection body just before he floated up into the sky would have been a serious point of controversy!

teaearlgreyhot,

Jesus during His actual ministry did stuff which pious Jews found controversial. Peter and Paul both understood that Jesus was talking to EVERYONE.

Peter didnt need a vision about kosher and non-kosher to understand that the Gospel message was about love of neighbors - even if they werent Jewish. He already knew who Jesus meant by ''neighbor''. (See the Samaritan parable)