(September 7, 2012 at 11:37 am)Homo Sapiens Wrote: Also lenin was half jewis and the trot was a jew to.

Not sure about Lenin himself.

But Russian Jews were disproporationally represented in the left wing agitations that ultimately led to the Bolshevik revolution and the founding of the Soviet Union. Given the degree of violent antisemitism in Czarist Russia, it is no surprise that Russian Jews would see salvation in a movement that promises overthrow the the regime and equality of all people.

But under Stalin Soviet Union more or less abandoned the utopian all-people-are-equal ideology, and began to aggressively promote and exploite Russian nationalism as a pillar of the Soviet State. After WWII, Stalin prompted a policy of supporting the Zionist cause abroad to make trouble for the west, particularly Britain, while excluding Jews from all positions of influence inside the Soviet Union.

(September 7, 2012 at 11:37 am)Homo Sapiens Wrote: Also lenin was half jewis and the trot was a jew to.

Lenin was of Jewish descent but he himself was an atheist but he spoke out fervently against anti-semitism

"The tsarist police, in alliance with the landowners and the capitalists, organised pogroms against the Jews. The landowners and capitalists tried to divert the hatred of the workers and peasants who were tortured by want against the Jews. ... It is not the Jews who are the enemies of the working people. The enemies of the workers are the capitalists of all countries. Among the Jews there are working people, and they form the majority. They are our brothers, who, like us, are oppressed by capital; they are our comrades in the struggle for socialism. ... The capitalists strive to sow and foment hatred between workers of different faiths, different nations and different races. ... Rich Jews, like rich Russians, and the rich in all countries, are in alliance to oppress, crush, rob, and disunite the workers. ... Shame on those who foment hatred towards the Jews, who foment hatred towards other nations"

-Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

Lenin seems to be of mixed tartar, not Jewish, descent on both sides of his parentage. It seemed to have been fashionable during early years of the Soviet Union for White Russian forces fighting against Bolsheviks to exploit antisemitism bequeathed by the Czarist regime by claiming all Bolsheviks were Jews when in fact by far the majority weren't.

To be flippant, Lenin was biologically more related to Genghis Khan than to either Abraham or Peter the Great.

Also, before his death, Lenin clashed violently with Stalin over the latter's promotion of Russian nationalism. Lenin appearently held more truly to the communist ideal of a utopian proletarian state without social, political and economic differentiation based on race and ethnicity. But Lenin was disabled by multiple strokes and wasn't able to deal the coup de grace to Stalin before he died.

Incidentally, Stalin's Georgian ethnicity seem to complement the theory that the most violently nationalistic and aggresively expansionist dictators in history tend not to actually belong to the nationality whose jingosim he is exploiting. Stalin was Goergian, not Russian. Hitler was Austrian, not German. Napoleaon was Italian, not French.

So I might cynically say it tends to be an outsdier who doesn't give a rat's ass about a race or nationality who would whip up its jingosim to such a pitch as to inevitably make that race or nationality into cannon fodder.

(September 7, 2012 at 1:04 pm)Chuck Wrote: Lenin seems to be of mixed tartar, not Jewish, descent on both sides of his parentage. It seemed to have been fashionable during early years of the Soviet Union for White Russian forces fighting against Bolsheviks to exploit antisemitism bequeathed by the Czarist regime by claiming all Bolsheviks were Jews when in fact by far the majority weren't.

To be flippant, Lenin was biologically more related to Genghis Khan than to Abraham.

To be exact his father was either Kalmyk or Tatar. On his mother's side, his grandfather was russian-jewish and his grandmother was german

He was raised christian, but when his mother died, he became an atheist at 16.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Lenin

The article says his mother is Kalmyk, not Jewish-German.

(September 7, 2012 at 1:31 pm)Chuck Wrote: The article says his mother is Kalmyk, not Jewish-German.

yeah it's horribly written I think your reffering to his father's first wife Anna.

(September 6, 2012 at 7:30 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: The Ottoman Empire was allied with the Central Powers and Germany in WW1, perhaps that's where cratehorus is confused.

One might say the single most diseasterous political decision in all of the 20th century was that of Winston Churchill in unnecessarily pushing Turkey into an alliance with Germany. In Churchill's pompous anglocentric mind Turkey was not worth two dreadnought battleships. It turns out the temporary alliance between Turkey and Germany effectively cut Russia off and neutralized Russian menpower, led to the 3 year stalemate on western front, the Bolshevik revolution in Russia, Versaille, Hitler, WWII, half century of Soviet domination of Eastern Europe, and the complete collapse of British Empire.

People remember Churchill as the great statesmen who preserved the British empire before the Nazi onslaught.

A perhaps more valid representation of Churchill would be a dilatant whose amateurish double dealings led to the downfall of British Empire. What sort of mental process could possibly see it as a good idea to push a power that bestrode the only viable transportation route between you, and where all your cannon fodders are, to join your enemy??

The same great man would do the same thing again in WWII, when he would send two British dreadnoughts from Singapore into the maw of Japanese airpower a few days after the said airpower had demolished all the dreadnoughts of the US pacific fleet. He appearently thought the British flag on 2 battleships would, in his words "overawe" the Japanese when all 8 battleships of the US pacific fleet daunted the Japanese not a bit.

(September 7, 2012 at 1:26 pm)cratehorus Wrote:

(September 7, 2012 at 1:04 pm)Chuck Wrote: Lenin seems to be of mixed tartar, not Jewish, descent on both sides of his parentage. It seemed to have been fashionable during early years of the Soviet Union for White Russian forces fighting against Bolsheviks to exploit antisemitism bequeathed by the Czarist regime by claiming all Bolsheviks were Jews when in fact by far the majority weren't.

To be flippant, Lenin was biologically more related to Genghis Khan than to Abraham.

To be exact his father was either Kalmyk or Tatar. On his mother's side, his grandfather was russian-jewish and his grandmother was german

He was raised christian, but when his mother died, he became an atheist at 16.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Lenin

He can't be both Kalmuk and Tatar. Tatars are predominantly moslem, and generally have moslem names for themselves.
There are a small minority of christian Tatars, however.
Kalmuks are mostly Buddhists(also with small christian minorities), and probably use ethnic names aswell.
I guess he had to be of these minorities of christians amongst both groups.

(September 7, 2012 at 3:54 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: He can't be both Kalmuk and Tatar. Tatars are predominantly moslem, and generally have moslem names for themselves.
There are a small minority of christian Tatars, however.
Kalmuks are mostly Buddhists(also with small christian minorities), and probably use ethnic names aswell.
I guess he had to be of these minorities of christians amongst both groups.

His father was a slave, so it's difficult to tell, he was born in Russia, though

Well, mehmet, when a Kalmuk and a Tatar love each other very, very much (or more to base point, one inseminates the other) and have a child, the child is both Kalmuk and Tatar.

Isn't ethnic lineage one of your specialties? With the kurds and all that jazz in Turkey?