(September 23, 2012 at 4:57 pm)Darkstar Wrote:

(September 23, 2012 at 4:05 pm)Darkstar Wrote: Not that I necessarily disagree, but how does a double-amputee in a wheelchair outmaneuver and corner a cop who has two arms and two legs? If he had one arm he couldn't move the chair and swing around the pen at the same time, could he? It just seems kind of unusual...

(September 23, 2012 at 4:55 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: He was cornered, what would you do?

I was just curious as to how he cornered him, being able to only maneuver with one arm, and all. See bolded.

I never said you were disagreeing, just countering the point.
I doubt he even expected a guy in a wheel chair with two limbs left to try and kill him, I mean who would? Probably let his guard down and didn't take into account where he was positioned when he entered.

RD, you're mindlessly focusing on the cop being cornered instead of asking if the cop used reasonable force.

So far, the police have no justified why deadly force was necessitated nor how the situation developed such that it was required.

When a double amputee is cornering cops, we as the public better know about it.

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You're focusing on the ideology.

After all, HOW the fuck did this happen?

You defend the cops first instead of asking why.

Fuck you. Just another zero-sum game politico who can't even ask why this most ridiculous situation happened.

Only a dickhead has to pull out a "them or you" situation to illustrate a fully armed, fully capable and fit police officer must shoot a double amputee in a wheel chair who is potentially unstable.

I'm just wondering why cops bother carrying tasers at all if they're just going to reach for a gun in situations like this.

(September 23, 2012 at 4:17 pm)cratehorus Wrote:

(September 23, 2012 at 1:57 am)Minimalist Wrote: http://apnews.excite.com/article/2012092...89H81.html


Again I say....these fucking cops are out of control.

what "cops"? do you mean the high school dropout with 1 months worth of training? Who do you think takes a police officer job in the worst part of the inner city for $25K per year? Sure as fuck ain't batman

The requirements for the Houston Police Department.

http://www.ehow.com/list_6651983_require...uston.html

Besides, even if he was a high school dropout, who appointed him judge, jury and executioner?

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Quote:He was cornered with a lunatic desperately trying to stab him with a metal object, what would you do?

Darkstar is asking a logical question though. What kind of an asshole allows himself to get into that kind of situation?

As to what else he could have done... call for backup? Use his billy club. A taser. Most inner city cops routinely wear body armor. Was a pen going to penetrate that?

Right now, we have a live cop with a smoking gun and a dead, double-amputee who can't give his side of the story.

I wonder if the guy was black and the cop was white?

(September 23, 2012 at 6:31 pm)Faith No More Wrote: I'm just wondering why cops bother carrying tasers at all if they're just going to reach for a gun in situations like this.

You see, thats a good question.

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(September 23, 2012 at 6:23 pm)Moros Synackaon Wrote: RD, you're mindlessly focusing on the cop being cornered instead of asking if the cop used reasonable force.

So far, the police have no justified why deadly force was necessitated nor how the situation developed such that it was required.

When a double amputee is cornering cops, we as the public better know about it.

---

You're focusing on the ideology.

After all, HOW the fuck did this happen?

You defend the cops first instead of asking why.

Fuck you. Just another zero-sum game politico who can't even ask why this most ridiculous situation happened.

Only a dickhead has to pull out a "them or you" situation to illustrate a fully armed, fully capable and fit police officer must shoot a double amputee in a wheel chair who is potentially unstable.

Seriously, do you just go aggressive the second someone disagrees with you? Because thats what it feels like.

I'm usually the last person to defend authority but its unfair to pin this solely on the cop.
No, it shouldn't of happened but its unfair to blame a cop for defending himself. You think he wanted to shoot a guy in a wheel chair? Just had a bad day and thought "huh, you know something? I'm going to shoot a cripple today."? I sincerely doubt he'd have got in melee range if that were the case. He probably thought it was just a routine disturbance that would prove uneventful.
You don't expect a guy in a wheel chair to try and stab you and with your back against the wall you're not going to have time to think of another solution.
Don't compare that situation where aload of cops used a guy for target practice with more than enough time to detain the suspect through other means to this. This suspect had a history of mental illness, appeared to have a weapon with the intention of using it and was close range attempting to stab the officer. Next time you've just come from the crime scene of a brutal stabbing then get landed in that situation lets see what solution you come up with to avoid being gutted.
Its not remotely comparable.

(September 23, 2012 at 7:30 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: Seriously, do you just go aggressive the second someone disagrees with you? Because thats what it feels like.

I get tired of people playing zero sum games with justice, as if a cold corpse can testify to anything other than itself being a corpse. That is cold.

I get tired of setting dickheads straight because they can't be arsed to establish a procedural standard of reasoned expectations.

I get tired of s-p-e-l-l-i-n-g it out to morons who don't immediately state "This is highly unusual. A man missing a leg and an arm against two full armed, fully abled deputies?" but go so far as to assume "defending oneself". It boggles the mind at the judgment you assign.

(September 23, 2012 at 7:30 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: I'm usually the last person to defend authority but its unfair to pin this solely on the cop.
No, it shouldn't of happened but its unfair to blame a cop for defending himself.

First off, you must establish:
A) Deadly force was justified
B) Other options were rendered inaccessible or already exhausted
C) "Defending oneself" was necessary (IE that there was an attack)

You've jumped the gun and have chosen to defend the cop without establishing a standard of reasonable expectations.

That is not making a reasonable statement. It assumes several things. Without evidence to show, it reeks of an ideological statement.

(September 23, 2012 at 7:30 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: You think he wanted to shoot a guy in a wheel chair? Just had a bad day and thought "huh, you know something? I'm going to shoot a cripple today."? I sincerely doubt he'd have got in melee range if that were the case. He probably thought it was just a routine disturbance that would prove uneventful.
You don't expect a guy in a wheel chair to try and stab you and with your back against the wall you're not going to have time to think of another solution.
Don't compare that situation where aload of cops used a guy for target practice with more than enough time to detain the suspect through other means to this. This suspect had a history of mental illness, appeared to have a weapon with the intention of using it and was close range attempting to stab the officer. Next time you've just come from the crime scene of a brutal stabbing then get landed in that situation lets see what solution you come up with to avoid being gutted.
Its not remotely comparable.

The above is all conjecture and potential bullshit. It also meets the mold of ideology, as it assumes several things about human beings and how they act.

I do not care an iota for the human condition and mind games you've described above. For all you know, there are police officers who'd get some jollies from killing someone.

What I do note is that the standards of use of deadly force have not been established.

I do note that the alleged assailant is restricted to a wheel chair.

I also note that there normally are two police officers, equipped with tasers and billy clubs, as well as service weapons.

Service weapons are designed to kill and are expected as such, of which has a standard of qualifiers to use deadly force. Use of deadly force when it is not required is considered misconduct and potentially criminal.

(September 23, 2012 at 8:20 pm)Moros Synackaon Wrote:

(September 23, 2012 at 7:30 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: Seriously, do you just go aggressive the second someone disagrees with you? Because thats what it feels like.

I get tired of people playing zero sum games with justice, as if a cold corpse can testify to anything other than itself being a corpse. That is cold.

I get tired of setting dickheads straight because they can't be arsed to establish a procedural standard of reasoned expectations.

I get tired of s-p-e-l-l-i-n-g it out to morons who don't immediately state "This is highly unusual. A man missing a leg and an arm against two full armed, fully abled deputies?" but go so far as to assume "defending oneself". It boggles the mind at the judgment you assign.

(September 23, 2012 at 7:30 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: I'm usually the last person to defend authority but its unfair to pin this solely on the cop.
No, it shouldn't of happened but its unfair to blame a cop for defending himself.

First off, you must establish:
A) Deadly force was justified
B) Other options were rendered inaccessible or already exhausted
C) "Defending oneself" was necessary (IE that there was an attack)

You've jumped the gun and have chosen to defend the cop without establishing a standard of reasonable expectations.

That is not making a reasonable statement. It assumes several things. Without evidence to show, it reeks of an ideological statement.

(September 23, 2012 at 7:30 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: You think he wanted to shoot a guy in a wheel chair? Just had a bad day and thought "huh, you know something? I'm going to shoot a cripple today."? I sincerely doubt he'd have got in melee range if that were the case. He probably thought it was just a routine disturbance that would prove uneventful.
You don't expect a guy in a wheel chair to try and stab you and with your back against the wall you're not going to have time to think of another solution.
Don't compare that situation where aload of cops used a guy for target practice with more than enough time to detain the suspect through other means to this. This suspect had a history of mental illness, appeared to have a weapon with the intention of using it and was close range attempting to stab the officer. Next time you've just come from the crime scene of a brutal stabbing then get landed in that situation lets see what solution you come up with to avoid being gutted.
Its not remotely comparable.

The above is all conjecture and potential bullshit. It also meets the mold of ideology, as it assumes several things about human beings and how they act.

I do not care an iota for the human condition and mind games you've described above. For all you know, there are police officers who'd get some jollies from killing someone.

What I do note is that the standards of use of deadly force have not been established.

I do note that the alleged assailant is restricted to a wheel chair.

I also note that there normally are two police officers, equipped with tasers and billy clubs, as well as service weapons.

Service weapons are designed to kill and are expected as such, of which has a standard of qualifiers to use deadly force. Use of deadly force when it is not required is considered misconduct and potentially criminal.

Sorry, all I'm seeing is someone working completely outside the source he has which is the news story and jumping to conclusions. Witnesses say he was cornered by a mentally damaged cripple trying to stab him and had no choice.
If you want to establish otherwise then give me another source that says otherwise.
If you don't have one; shut the fuck up you arrogant little man.

I tried being polite, I tried shrugging it off, I tried being pleasant despite you behaving like an asshole. I'm done.
If you behave like a spoilt little brat throwing toys out of its pram then thats exactly how I'm going to treat you.

So, hi. I live in Houston so this is a local story, right? Well, I saw a bit on the local news about it. Turns out, this isn't the first time this particular police officer has shot a guy in the line of duty. The first guy did have a knife, although they didn't go into too much detail about it. Still, shooting and killing two guys in the past three years does set up an alarming precedent, doesn't it?

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/196136...wheelchair

(September 23, 2012 at 10:41 pm)TaraJo Wrote: So, hi. I live in Houston so this is a local story, right? Well, I saw a bit on the local news about it. Turns out, this isn't the first time this particular police officer has shot a guy in the line of duty. The first guy did have a knife, although they didn't go into too much detail about it. Still, shooting and killing two guys in the past three years does set up an alarming precedent, doesn't it?

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/196136...wheelchair

Thanks for the info.

"Houston police records indicate that Marin also fatally shot a suspect in 2009. Investigators at the time said Marin came upon a man stabbing his neighbor to death at an apartment complex and opened fired when the suspect refused to drop the knife"

Seems reasonable considering the suspect stabbed his neighbour to death. Just seems like hes unlucky to be honest.

(September 23, 2012 at 8:35 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: Witnesses say he was cornered by a mentally damaged cripple trying to stab him and had no choice.

Cornered with enough room to discharge a weapon?

Where was the other cop?

This doesn't seem terribly convincing at all -- the dead had only one arm to hold the weapon with. I can imagine a wheel chair bursting behind someone with a blade* is reason to fire, though I wonder how and why it got to that point.

Still doesn't seem terribly convincing, but had it really got to that point, use of deadly force is allowed. It does seem most bizarre that the course of events proceeded the way that they did.

*I mean a definitive knife, not an anonymous black object that is of questionable threat.

(September 23, 2012 at 8:35 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: If you want to establish otherwise then give me another source that says otherwise.
If you don't have one; shut the fuck up you arrogant little man.

I tried being polite, I tried shrugging it off, I tried being pleasant despite you behaving like an asshole. I'm done.
If you behave like a spoilt little brat throwing toys out of its pram then thats exactly how I'm going to treat you.

Eating your own dogfood I see.