(September 27, 2012 at 5:26 pm)Godschild Wrote: @ Reasonable_Jeff, I also use the NASB and the ESV, together one can find the truths that scripture affords, especially with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Why again isn't there just one definitive translation in each language on the planet? This must go back to god playing hide and seek; in other words, being intentionally deceptive or non-existent.

It's much easier to believe there is no god.

(September 23, 2012 at 11:22 pm)Drich Wrote: I didn't look, because I know the only thing close to human sacerfice is what went down between isac and Aberham

Really

(September 24, 2012 at 12:13 am)Kayenneh Wrote: I don't get sacrifice. What on earth would a god do with the charred corpse (animal or human)? Wouldn't a sensible god let his followers keep their source of income instead of taking it from them?

their god doesn't really do "sensible"

(September 23, 2012 at 10:55 pm)Drich Wrote: So a child wasn't sacerficed is that your new assertion?

Are you that dense?

No sane parent would turn their child over to ANYONE that makes thrreats like that to any serious degree. dO THINK parents in real life would allow cops or judges to "test" thier loyalty like that?

If I came up to your kid and stuck a knife to their throat, does that mean I should be in charge just because I have the power to frighten you or bully you, even if I take the knife away and don't do it?

Thats what hostage takers do in doemestic home invasions and bank robbery situations. They don't want to actually harm anyone most of the time, but WILL let the hostages know and the cops know who is in charge. I hardly find that moral even if no one dies.

Secondly, there is death from the begining of the bible to the end of it, and not all old age natural death. But death that this alleged all powerful being either does not stop or actually sanctions for his "chosen people".

If we are even to assume the myth of the world flood story, it would not be a stretch to assume that even kids and babies outside the Noah family would exist. The story SAYS NOTHING about saving innocent babies, but treats all humans outside that family, including children and babies like trash for the mere crime of being born outside Noah. And on top of that the common excuse given by this fictional gods fans is that it is our fault, even the innocent kids who couldn't possibly comprehend atullt beefs.

THIRD, in real life 35 million peoole DIE world wide every year. that would be 350 MILLION in one decade alone, not to mention thousands of years. All while your fictional super hero does nothing to stop human suffering while his fans claims he is "all powerful", but seems to act like a selective deadbeat.

He is as a CHARACTER, as written, like reviewing a character in a book, can only be assesed as being inept or malicious.

But the third option is that bad and good in life are a result of nature and not a stupid comic book battle between Superman vs Kriptonite.

The point of the post isn't about weither someone died or not, but the mere act of bullying and hostage taking on the God character's part.

If I walk up to you and stick a gun to your head and say "Give me your wallet or I will shoot you dead", and then suddenly walk away without taking your wallet, am I moral even though I still threatened you?

That story is nothing more than a strong armed tactic and bullying for that petty tyrant to demand attention.

In real life NO ONE would respond that way to such an act. Most sane people would grab their kid, get away and call the police.

[quote='Brian37' pid='342677' dateline='1348799663']
[quote]Thats what hostage takers do in doemestic home invasions and bank robbery situations. They don't want to actually harm anyone most of the time, but WILL let the hostages know and the cops know who is in charge. I hardly find that moral even if no one dies.[/quote] you find that "immoral."

[quote]Secondly, there is death from the begining of the bible to the end of it, and not all old age natural death. But death that this alleged all powerful being either does not stop or actually sanctions for his "chosen people". [/quote]So?
Death is not the end but one's birth into eternity. The only ones who need fear it are those who will be born into eternal seperation.

[quote]If we are even to assume the myth of the world flood story, it would not be a stretch to assume that even kids and babies outside the Noah family would exist. The story SAYS NOTHING about saving innocent babies, but treats all humans outside that family, including children and babies like trash for the mere crime of being born outside Noah. [/quote]
So?
Even if there were innocent babies outside the Ark wouldn't they be returning home to the Father that loved them? And if the point of this life was to choose where we are to spend an eternity then isn't probable that God simply give them another chance to choose later?
What is lost here? What is the Great crime you preceive? Or is it simply that God will judge the unjust, and you find yourself aligned with that group of people?

[quote]THIRD, in real life 35 million peoole DIE world wide every year. that would be 350 MILLION in one decade alone, not to mention thousands of years. All while your fictional super hero does nothing to stop human suffering while his fans claims he is "all powerful", but seems to act like a selective deadbeat.[/quote]So what? 35 million or 350 million, you need to understand (if you haven't been told yet) we ALL Die. Everyone born (save one) has or will die. That is something we all owe for the life we have been given. No one has been promised 100 years then a death. we have been given the time we have been alotted and not a second more. Then we are born into eternity. That is to say we are born into eternal life or eternal death/seperation. Why would anyone resent this unless he chose to be eternally seperated from God and this 'life' is the only thing he got?

[quote]He is as a CHARACTER, as written, like reviewing a character in a book, can only be assesed as being inept or malicious.[/quote] From whos perspective? One who has chose to be born into eternal seperation? Is this person view of God a valid one? Obviously this person would have a natural slant or hatered of God if he chose to be eternally seperated from Him.

[quote]But the third option is that bad and good in life are a result of nature and not a stupid comic book battle between Superman vs Kriptonite.[/quote]What are you in 2nd grade? Who said anything about a battle between God and evil? I'm sorry but it seems you are basing your eternal fate on a 1000 year old/"Dark Age" understanding of God. Would you also base your understanding of science and medicine on a 1000 year old dark age view? Or would that just be too stupid? If you are not willing to entrust your life, this one breif breath existance on what was understood to be the pinnical of understanding medicine and science,(1000 years ago) then why oh, why are you willing to turn your eternal future over to this same type of understanding? Are you so proud to think that your elementary understanding of catholic based sunday school theology, is anywhere close to being an accurate protrayal of Biblical Christianity? If so, then you have indeed decided where you will spend eternity, and I do not pitty your proud efforts.

[quote]If I walk up to you and stick a gun to your head and say "Give me your wallet or I will shoot you dead", and then suddenly walk away without taking your wallet, am I moral even though I still threatened you?[/quote] You said moral again.

[quote]That story is nothing more than a strong armed tactic and bullying for that petty tyrant to demand attention. [/quote]You will have your say one day i suggest you save all of this for then. Because all i can do is point out how foolish this line of reasoning is, and point to the established standards that have been corrupted and perverted that allows your 'morality' to make such a judgement. Which is pointless because you do not seem to be interested in anything that your 'morality' does not approve. talk about circular reasoning..

[quote]In real life NO ONE would respond that way to such an act. Most sane people would grab their kid, get away and call the police.[/quote]
Again that is what this life is all about. Your chance to prove to God that you want to spend eternity with Him or to "Get away" from Him. It seems you have made your desision. Even so it is not too late to change it. Whatever you ultimatly decide know that God will hold you to what you have chosen forever.
Choose responsiably/Make an informed desision. Not one based on the limits of what you seem to understand now.

Drich Wrote:So?
Death is not the end but one's birth into eternity. The only ones who need fear it are those who will be born into eternal seperation.

Sorry, but the idea that death is a blessing is rather sickening. Why would people thank god for saving them from death in a natural disaster then? Shouldn't they be cursing him? Looking at things this way destroys respect for human life and devalues your own existence to the point where suicide would be the norm if god didn't condemn it.

---

Drich Wrote:I'm sorry but it seems you are basing your eternal fate on a 1000 year old/"Dark Age" understanding of God.

So the bible was hazier 1000 years closer to its original publication date? You would think that it would be blurred over time, not become clearer, considering it wouldn't have been as ancient of history then.

Quote:Death is not the end but one's birth into eternity. The only ones who need fear it are those who will be born into eternal seperation.

Ok then if this is not our finality then(FOR EXAMPLE ONLY) blow your own head off with a shotgun. I wouldn't recomend that though. And I certainly wont do that to myself.

You are sucked into the promise of a fictional utopia. I hate to tell you that the meme of "afterlife" was around way before your god myth was invented, and other beleivers such as Muslims and Hindus and Shintoists have their versions too. So take a number, but please don't kill yourself to conduct an experement.

Life after you die will be just like it was before you were born. The universe was around prior to your birth and it will have no record of you or I after our species goes extinct and our planet dies and our sun dies. I am sorry if that reality is not sexy enough for you, but that is the reality. We are finite, not infinite and we will never be infiinite.

There are no gods and no afterlife for us. There are merely people who throughout our species evoltion make up gods and fictional utopias to avoid this hard fact.

[quote='Darkstar' pid='342695' dateline='1348802147']
[quote]Sorry, but the idea that death is a blessing is rather sickening. Why would people thank god for saving them from death in a natural disaster then? [/quote]Because people still love life.

[quote]Shouldn't they be cursing him?[/quote]Why?

[quote] Looking at things this way destroys respect for human life and devalues your own existence to the point where suicide would be the norm if god didn't condemn it.[/quote]Where does God condemn suicide in the bible? (B/C/V please)


[quote]So the bible was hazier 1000 years closer to its original publication date?[/quote]1000 years ago there was a massive grab of power/world domination, and those people used the bible and people's ignorance of God word (Because the church" took the bible out of the hands of common people and translated it into a dead language so only they could know and meter out what they wanted the public to know.) in order sucessfully retain power for hundreds of years.

[quote] You would think that it would be blurred over time, not become clearer, considering it wouldn't have been as ancient of history then.[/quote] we have copies of the bible that are older than the period in which we are speaking. so how is it you figure that the bible itself becomes more or less clear?
The only thing that obscures our clarity is if we openly decide to give ourselves to the processes and interpertations of those who created the doctrines that subugated the people durning the dark ages. 'We' do this because it is much easier to villify and dismiss God so 'we' can seperate ourselves from God with in a good 'moral' feeling.

(September 27, 2012 at 11:11 pm)Drich Wrote: Death is not the end but one's birth into eternity. The only ones who need fear it are those who will be born into eternal seperation.

Not for an non-believer. We are already separated from your god. What difference would it possibly make to us. None.
Well, none ... unless you also believe that separation comes with eternal torture in the hell GC keeps telling us all about.

Meh, doesn't matter. I have no problems remaining separated from your false god. It's like threatening me with be separated from the Keebler Elves for all eternity.

(September 28, 2012 at 12:34 am)Drich Wrote:

Quote:Shouldn't they be cursing him?

Why?

They have to wait to go to eternal paradise. Why did he make them wait when he gave everyone else around them a free pass?

Drich Wrote:Where does God condemn suicide in the bible? (B/C/V please)

"Thou shall not kill" Hamlet says something about it in the Shakespearean play of the same name.

Drich Wrote:1000 years ago there was a massive grab of power/world domination, and those people used the bible and people's ignorance of God word (Because the church" took the bible out of the hands of common people and translated it into a dead language so only they could know and meter out what they wanted the public to know.) in order sucessfully retain power for hundreds of years.

So you admit that the church is just trying to control us?

Drich Wrote:we have copies of the bible that are older than the period in which we are speaking. so how is it you figure that the bible itself becomes more or less clear?
The only thing that obscures our clarity is if we openly decide to give ourselves to the processes and interpertations of those who created the doctrines that subugated the people durning the dark ages. 'We' do this because it is much easier to villify and dismiss God so 'we' can seperate ourselves from God with in a good 'moral' feeling.

With so many interpretations of the bible being thrown around, only one can be right if the bible is infalliable. I'm not talking so much about translations as I am the author's original intent. It may have been self-evident at the time, but looking back on it 2000+ years later, there are debates over how to properly interpret certain passages.