(November 12, 2012 at 12:17 pm)Truth Matters Wrote: So you trust chemical delusions (brain chemicals) more than an objective mind (Soul behind brain chemicals) to make rational decisions?

You claim Atheism is not a Belief? Wow.
Do Atheists not hold a belief position on whether or not God exists?

But your brain chemicals delusion has a bias towards those whose chemical delusions are Materialistic?

Yep, Atheism is madness when taken seriously. But hey, I'm just taking your Naturalism seriously through to it's logically inescapable implications.

In short : you are full of shit and most certainly clueless of what you are talking about.

And no atheism for me isn't a belief maybe because my parents were smart enough not to poison my brain with your friend in the sky story ( see my intro post ) so whether there is or isn't a god was quite irrelevant for most of my life.
The only time i actually think about such obvious silliness is when i'm confronted with nutcases like you ...

(November 10, 2012 at 1:03 pm)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote:

(November 8, 2012 at 9:29 pm)Truth Matters Wrote: Then explain a plausible causal agency that fits the necessary criteria of any sufficient agency ( non-physical, timeless, spaceless, immaterial with enormous capacity) consistent with Atheism?

Non-physical? I have no need for a agency like that.
The only agency I need is one which explains reality with objective reasonable methods and leaves fantasies out of the equasion.

(November 8, 2012 at 9:29 pm)Truth Matters Wrote: Explain exactly how physical science (empiricism) can explain the cause of physics?

I cant explain that because it has not jet been determained.
I will repeat what I said before.

I acknowlege things I dont know, but will pursue to gain this knowlege through rational inqiry, instead of simply declaring non-known things to be devine and therefor the process of determening their cause as heresy.

Now I guess that must be the most in-dept and basic explaination of my view and I will not paint you a drawing with smiley stickers and bright colors to explain it.

(November 8, 2012 at 9:29 pm)Truth Matters Wrote: The very notion is absurd. You may as well expect your metal detector to detect how to manufacture metal detectors.
Science is a very limited endeavor. Most truth cannot be accessed by science.

I dont know if this is a strawman fail or simply a display of outright ignorance or stupidity.
Explain this weird metal detector rubish in a bit more detail.

And show me the "truths" which your "devine" revalation\delusion has given to us.

(fact) The absolute physical beginning has been fully determined by science.
Denial is ignorance. You need to come to grips with the logical FACT that physical scientists cannot access that which precedes physical existence.

(fact) You have FAILED to demonstrate the slightest problem with any argument. So have your fellow Atheist faithful. Demonstrate just one problem. You can't. You will lose trying.

(fact) It is the Atheist who is stuck with 100% chemicals to explain mind. It is the Atheist who has no other logical possibility available apart from chemically induced delusion.

The metal detector analogy should be obvious.
The metal detector (physical science) is simply not equipped to answer questions beyond the scope of it's utility. Expecting metal detectors to explain how metal detectors began to exist is absurd. Expecting physical science to explain why physics began to exist is absurd - a misguided abuse of reason.

Atheism is absurd.

You keep repeating that on your mind, maybe after a while, your god will pop into existence from your wishing

(November 12, 2012 at 12:17 pm)Truth Matters Wrote: So you trust chemical delusions (brain chemicals) more than an objective mind (Soul behind brain chemicals) to make rational decisions?

I don't walk around wondering which brain chemicals to give more weight to. That's your construct. Enjoy it.

(November 12, 2012 at 12:17 pm)Truth Matters Wrote: You claim Atheism is not a Belief? Wow.
Do Atheists not hold a belief position on whether or not God exists?

I don't find it a proposition deserving of my investing a belief one way or another. I don't really care if your god exists anymore than I do if Rhythm's ghosts do. (No offense intended, Rhythm.)

(November 12, 2012 at 12:17 pm)Truth Matters Wrote: Yep, Atheism is madness when taken seriously. But hey, I'm just taking your Naturalism seriously through to it's logically inescapable implications.

Get a life.

(November 12, 2012 at 1:07 pm)Kousbroek Wrote:

(November 12, 2012 at 12:17 pm)Truth Matters Wrote: So you trust chemical delusions (brain chemicals) more than an objective mind (Soul behind brain chemicals) to make rational decisions?

You claim Atheism is not a Belief? Wow.
Do Atheists not hold a belief position on whether or not God exists?

But your brain chemicals delusion has a bias towards those whose chemical delusions are Materialistic?

Yep, Atheism is madness when taken seriously. But hey, I'm just taking your Naturalism seriously through to it's logically inescapable implications.

In short : you are full of shit and most certainly clueless of what you are talking about.

And no atheism for me isn't a belief maybe because my parents were smart enough not to poison my brain with your friend in the sky story ( see my intro post ) so whether there is or isn't a god was quite irrelevant for most of my life.
The only time i actually think about such obvious silliness is when i'm confronted with nutcases like you ...

So you don't have any position on whether or No God exists?
Then why are you here? Do you Atheists come here to share no position on whether or not God exists?

You guys are pathetic - and obviously dishonest. Atheists will say anything to avoid accountability when logically pinned. The reason you offer these phony definitions of Atheism is to avoid intellectual accountability to JUSTIFY as a belief.

(FACT) I don't believe in a sky daddy. God is not located or physical.

(November 12, 2012 at 1:08 pm)Truth Matters Wrote: (fact) The absolute physical beginning has been fully determined by science.
Denial is ignorance. You need to come to grips with the logical FACT that physical scientists cannot access that which precedes physical existence.

(fact) You have FAILED to demonstrate the slightest problem with any argument. So have your fellow Atheist faithful. Demonstrate just one problem. You can't. You will lose trying.

(fact) It is the Atheist who is stuck with 100% chemicals to explain mind. It is the Atheist who has no other logical possibility available apart from chemically induced delusion.

The metal detector analogy should be obvious.
The metal detector (physical science) is simply not equipped to answer questions beyond the scope of it's utility. Expecting metal detectors to explain how metal detectors began to exist is absurd. Expecting physical science to explain why physics began to exist is absurd - a misguided abuse of reason.

Atheism is absurd.

Fact: You are in no better position than anyone else to start spitting out the 'facts'.

Fact: You lack the decency to admit this or act accordingly.

Fact: This makes you boorish.

Fact: Arguing for agnosticism is not an argument for theism.

Fact:

Fact:

Fact:

(November 12, 2012 at 1:32 pm)whateverist Wrote:

(November 12, 2012 at 12:17 pm)Truth Matters Wrote: So you trust chemical delusions (brain chemicals) more than an objective mind (Soul behind brain chemicals) to make rational decisions?

I don't walk around wondering which brain chemicals to give more weight to. That's your construct. Enjoy it.

(November 12, 2012 at 12:17 pm)Truth Matters Wrote: You claim Atheism is not a Belief? Wow.
Do Atheists not hold a belief position on whether or not God exists?

I don't find it a proposition deserving of my investing a belief one way or another. I don't really care if your god exists anymore than I do if Rhythm's ghosts do. (No offense intended, Rhythm.)

(November 12, 2012 at 12:17 pm)Truth Matters Wrote: Yep, Atheism is madness when taken seriously. But hey, I'm just taking your Naturalism seriously through to it's logically inescapable implications.

Get a life.

Avoiding logical fact doesn't make the logical fact preposterous.
I agree Atheism is preposterous when taken seriously. That's why I demonstrated it.
You ignore the logical fact that without a rational, free-willed soul, your mind is 100% causally determined by chemical causation (force). Your thoughts are 100% chemically induced delusion. You have no other logical choice available to you.

Wishing away a logical fact doesn't do anything to defeat logical fact.
Atheism is absurd.

(November 12, 2012 at 1:39 pm)Truth Matters Wrote: So you don't have any position on whether or No God exists?
Then why are you here? Do you Atheists come here to share no position on whether or not God exists?

Newsflash for the dim of wit: Atheists by and large have moved on from gods. We're not obsessed with making sure we are correct in having tossed your particular god in the shitter with the rest of them.

Why do we come here? Variety of reasons. Often it is to commiserate over the annoyance of having to share the planet with wee brained folk such as yourself.

More important question: why are you here? Are you so offended that anyone should fail to pay homage to your god? It doesn't seem like you are moved with godly love to spare me from the depths of hell. (Thank you for that much.) Don't tell me you actually thought you had such a killer argument we had ever heard before.

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(November 12, 2012 at 1:48 pm)Truth Matters Wrote: You ignore the logical fact that without a rational, free-willed soul, your mind is 100% causally determined by chemical causation (force).

So you keep saying. Never mind that what you say isn't quite coherent and certainly isn't convincing. But I guess that is how you maintain your faith as well. In the absence of anything more substantial I suggest you move on down the road and try peddling that snake oil somewhere else.

(November 12, 2012 at 12:39 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

Quote:I think that anyone who trusts their delusions completely Why would a ghost be more trustworthy to begin with amigo? More importantly, why should I prefer ghosts over chemical interactions in whatever limited amount of trust I care to afford?

Your statement is inconsistent with your own Atheism.
Your statement presumes some You ('I') exists to 'choose' or 'trust' apart from the delusions induced by brain chemicals.
Where do you get that 'I' that trusts - apart from chemical delusion????
With Atheism. there is no 'you' apart from the chemicals and delusions induced by chemical force.

So even your own direct experience is radically inconsistent with your Atheistic metaphysics. You may have never considered it, but it's obviously very real. You do not experience yourself as a chemical machine with no free-will or intention apart from chemical determinism. You have a soul working through the physical brain. Your soul is you. Your brain is a chemical store of memory and physical conduit to the physical realm within which we exist.

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(November 12, 2012 at 1:49 pm)whateverist Wrote: [quote='Truth Matters' pid='361784' dateline='1352741941']
So you don't have any position on whether or No God exists?
Then why are you here? Do you Atheists come here to share no position on whether or not God exists?

Newsflash for the dim of wit: Atheists by and large have moved on from gods. We're not obsessed with making sure we are correct in having tossed your particular god in the shitter with the rest of them.

Why do we come here? Variety of reasons. Often it is to commiserate over the annoyance of having to share the planet with wee brained folk such as yourself.

More important question: why are you here? Are you so offended that anyone should fail to pay homage to your god? It doesn't seem like you are moved with godly love to spare me from the depths of hell. (Thank you for that much.) Don't tell me you actually thought you had such a killer argument we had ever heard before.

---

(November 12, 2012 at 1:48 pm)Truth Matters Wrote: You ignore the logical fact that without a rational, free-willed soul, your mind is 100% causally determined by chemical causation (force).

So you keep saying. Never mind that what you say isn't quite coherent and certainly isn't convincing. But I guess that is how you maintain your faith as well. In the absence of anything more substantial I suggest you move on down the road and try peddling that snake oil somewhere else.

Why can't you answer my question?

You haven't demonstrated the slightest problem with anything I've argued. You can't demonstrate where anyone else has either.

Your hatred for me is not an argument. Neither is avoiding the arguments an argument. YOU HAVE NO ARGUMENT. You have no merit to your intellectually lazy position. You just wish I would stop pointing it out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_a_Strange_Loop

Quote:In the end, we are self-perceiving, self-inventing, locked-in mirages that are little miracles of self-reference.

The function of the brain is quite well understood with scientists now able to "read" minds by studying the changes in the brain.

http://techland.time.com/2011/09/23/scie...to-movies/

No supernatural soul or other entity is necessary it's all chemicals interacting in highly complex ways.
And that I think is amazing, that mostly water and fats can get up and think about the world is by several factors more wonderful than the idea of some anthropomorphised lazy answer that is the god concept. An idea which is just plain STUPID.