(November 18, 2012 at 10:02 pm)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: Well I grew up near a nazi-concentration camp with a dark chapter of history being part of our culture - and a resulting obligation to be supportive and helpfull towards the jewish people, so I to am biased.

Do you also have a resulting obligation to the Russians? (More died than jews)

You know, just like the eye opening one has when they drop their religion, one can also have the same awakening to cultural bias toward jews.

Lets boil it down to what it is about the bible, and the doctrine of Abraham. The single theme of those books, I am good you disagree with me so you are bad. Just try to find a place where Abrahamists get into power that that message does not play out the same old way.

(November 18, 2012 at 10:56 pm)Brakeman Wrote: Do you also have a resulting obligation to the Russians? (More died than jews)

You know, just like the eye opening one has when they drop their religion, one can also have the same awakening to cultural bias toward jews.

Good point! actualy we did yes. Up until recently.
German foreign policie is dominated by "special" releations with Israel, France, Poland, Tschek Republic and others.

And it has only been last year that this kind of releationship has ended with Russia due to a diplomatic fallout between Moscow and Berlin.

It is something very hard to describe, I guess some Germans feel that ways and others just dont.

Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper, published many stories like this one in the aftermath of the 2009 invasion of Gaza.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/idf-in-gaza-...t-1.272379

Quote:During Operation Cast Lead, Israeli forces killed Palestinian civilians under permissive rules of engagement and intentionally destroyed their property, say soldiers who fought in the offensive.

The soldiers are graduates of the Yitzhak Rabin pre-military preparatory course at Oranim Academic College in Tivon. Some of their statements made on Feb. 13 will appear Thursday and Friday in Haaretz. Dozens of graduates of the course who took part in the discussion fought in the Gaza operation.

The speakers included combat pilots and infantry soldiers. Their testimony runs counter to the Israel Defense Forces' claims that Israeli troops observed a high level of moral behavior during the operation. The session's transcript was published this week in the newsletter for the course's graduates.

What stories of Israel doing something wrong? Must be propaganda by anti-Semites. Israel is all rainbows and kisses after all.

Several years back, I recall Hamas throwing Fatah out of Gaza and many officials off of buildings. There were rocket bombardments.

I also recall Israel taking part in wanton destruction, using white phosphorus in some bombardments.

Today I see Hamas using Iranian rockets to antagonize Israel. Then Israel, noting that every other power nearby is distracted (Syria in civil war, Egypt turning inward, Iran in a recession), decides to pound Hamas into the ground, religiously-backed politics included.

I don't like this pattern. It seems like either side lives to abuse the other.

Israelis and Palestinian echo chambers grow ever louder.

There is mutual consent between Hamas and Israel it seems in carrying on past policies and perhaps making them even more brutal.

(November 19, 2012 at 3:46 am)Moros Synackaon Wrote: There is mutual consent between Hamas and Israel it seems in carrying on past policies and perhaps making them even more brutal.

On the world service, the intention behind this is being reported as, the Israeli government is testing out the waters of the new Arabic governments to see how far they can go.

(November 19, 2012 at 3:46 am)Moros Synackaon Wrote: Several years back, I recall Hamas throwing Fatah out of Gaza and many officials off of buildings. There were rocket bombardments.

I also recall Israel taking part in wanton destruction, using white phosphorus in some bombardments.

Today I see Hamas using Iranian rockets to antagonize Israel. Then Israel, noting that every other power nearby is distracted (Syria in civil war, Egypt turning inward, Iran in a recession), decides to pound Hamas into the ground, religiously-backed politics included.

I don't like this pattern. It seems like either side lives to abuse the other.

Israelis and Palestinian echo chambers grow ever louder.

There is mutual consent between Hamas and Israel it seems in carrying on past policies and perhaps making them even more brutal.

I fear it will take a new generation of Israelis, just like during the 1990s, who grew up with war and who are sick and tired of war and therefor will restart the peacprocess.
Untill then I dont see much hope with Netanyahu and Hamas being the dominant Palestinian faction.

Hamas and the Israeli warhawks dominate, yes.

That isn't always the case forever though.

Generations are often oppositional to their forebears, so it remains a possibility that after the Netanyahu warhawks and the Hamas warhawks lose power, they'll be pushes for reconciliation and peace.

I heard on the radio 4 talking about Gaza, that the the United Nations, say by twenty twenty there will be no way to support a population in Gaza. If that time frame is true. The 'west's' support for Israel and an Israeli iron hand. Is going to solve the problem all that Israel is going to have to pay for the victory is an occasional infective bomb.

I hear lots of talk about right and wrong, morals, and all that guff, but it is about power. As long as the west associates Israel with the holocaust, and treats it's theocracy as a democracy. and the Islamic world fights among itself and leaves the Palestinians to rot, the out come is inevitable.