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As much as I love your posts min. Homicide rates are determined by 1 murder per 100 000 people.
The US has 300 000 000 people living in it which cannot be compared to the UK.
Murder rate in the US: 4.2 and in the UK 1.2 so one might think you are right. But the average homicide rate in eastern europe and south america is higher than in the US and they have strickter gun control.
November 26, 2012 at 4:35 pm (This post was last modified: November 26, 2012 at 4:43 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Less likely to be shot does not directly equate to "safer" unless the only criteria you're referencing is how many people get shot. Neither does a bare reference to the statistics address the majority of gun crime (which is not John Q shooting John Q). Lower access to firearms in the UK would predictably lead to fewer gun related crimes, but whether or not it leads to less crime...or a "safer" society...well.....
Laying aside the differences in what constitutes any given crime, or what constitutes a violent crime, the UN's reporting would seem to suggest that the UK has a higher rate of violent crime per capita than the US. Now, I don't think (like the gun lobby here in the US, for example) that the UK might have this issue because they dis-armed their populace, I would suggest that the lower population assigns a heavier per capita weight to any crime, and that our much larger "rural" areas compared to theirs further skew the results (not that these two are the only things operating...I'm sure there's a mountain of influences of crime rates in any given area). Even factoring in differences in law (and ignoring statistics about violent crime specifically) the total crime statistics put the UK right behind the US as number 2, with half as much crime (but less than a quarter of the overall population). That's some pretty simple math. On the other hand, the UK has less than half the homicides per capita that the US has. So, less likely to be murdered, less likely to be shot, but more likely to be the victim of a violent crime, and more likely to be the victim of any crime period.
-sourced from The Eighth United Nations Survey on Crime Trends and the Operations of Criminal Justice Systems (2002). United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention, so theyre older numbers (but 5 years after the 1997 firearms act...) Others might criticize these numbers on other grounds entirely, such as corruption/lack of reporting or convictions..but if we're going to talk about relative safety I think we'll need to get some numbers somewhere, otherwise it just a war of assertions.
(the majority of the guns "laying around" in the US aren't "laying around" in the areas with the highest incidence of gun related violence btw...they're "laying around" in the "safest" parts of our country- not that I would go so far as to suggest a causal relationship in this either.)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Love y'all posters for sourcing/facts. Can't get enough of it.
Some questions to further this:
Does the density of population with respect to cities and rural areas for gun crime normalized to other violent criminal actions differ between the United States and UK?
I ask that to establish a baseline between rural and urban compared against countries.
My personal inclinations would indicate that the UK is, as a whole, more densely populated per square mile and thus more prone to criminal activity.
November 26, 2012 at 9:39 pm (This post was last modified: November 26, 2012 at 9:41 pm by Jaysyn.)
(November 26, 2012 at 1:54 pm)popeyespappy Wrote:
(November 26, 2012 at 12:11 pm)Jaysyn Wrote:
Yes.
That's one of them.
Mine's cooler.
Maybe. Mine's all carbon fiber except for the action & magazines.
"How is it that a lame man does not annoy us while a lame mind does? Because a lame man recognizes that we are walking straight, while a lame mind says that it is we who are limping." - Pascal
November 26, 2012 at 9:47 pm (This post was last modified: November 26, 2012 at 9:51 pm by Whateverist.)
(November 26, 2012 at 4:14 pm)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: As much as I love your posts min. Homicide rates are determined by 1 murder per 100 000 people.
The US has 300 000 000 people living in it which cannot be compared to the UK.
Murder rate in the US: 4.2 and in the UK 1.2 so one might think you are right. But the average homicide rate in eastern europe and south america is higher than in the US and they have strickter gun control.
Well if you're going to get all selective about it, lets look at Texas or Arizona. I imagine the murder rate in Texas is higher than eastern europe and south america combined, and that's only counting state sanctioned executions.
(November 26, 2012 at 9:38 pm)Moros Synackaon Wrote: Love y'all posters for sourcing/facts. Can't get enough of it.
In fairness I should probably reveal that my figures come straight out of my ass.
@ Moros
Well, the UN has a new report out (and it's .xls, which is a first for them apparently) but I don't know if they track the data by those particular criteria, should be relatively easy to figure out if they do in xls format though. There are some heavily politicized claims with regards to rural crime in the uk (and the us)...doesn't instill me with confidence in using them as sources.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(November 26, 2012 at 9:47 pm)whateverist Wrote: Well if you're going to get all selective about it, lets look at Texas or Arizona. I imagine the murder rate in Texas is higher than eastern europe and south america combined, and that's only counting state sanctioned executions.
Lets take a look.
Homicide rate in Texas 2011: 4.4 per 100 000 people.
(2010: 4.9, 2009: 5.4)
Now the combined homicide rate of north America (Includes Canada) is 3.9 per 100 000 people.
The highest is in southern Africa with 30.5 per 100 000 people.
Central Americas homicide rate is 28.5 per 100 000 - and thereby the highest on the american continents.
South americas combined homicide rate is 20 per 100 000 - and thereby still higher than the one in all of north america - and twice as high than the combined homicide rates of Texas and Arizona.
The eastern european homicide rate is 6.4 per 100 000 people - so higher than north america, higher than the US (4.2) but lower than Texas and Arizona eaven when not combined.
The highest homicide rates in individual nations are:
Honduras (Central America): 91.6 per 100 000,
El Salvador (Central America): 69.2 per 100 000,
Ivory Coast (West Africa): 56.9 per 100 000,
Jamaica (Carabian): 52.2 per 100 000,
Venezuela (South America): 45.1 per 100 000,
Belize (Central America): 41.4 per 100 000,
The lowes homicide rates are:
Palau (Pazific): 0 - not a single murder last year
Hong Kong (Asia): 0.2 per 100 000
Iceland (Europe): 0.3 per 100 000 (one single murder in last year in the entire country)
Here`s a pic which shows where the homicide rates are the highest, (the darker the color - the higher the rate):
And the most murderous cities in the World are:
10: Rio De Janero (Brazil), 9: Detroit (USA), 8: Karachi (Pakistan), 7: Grozny (Chechnya), 6: New Orleans (USA), 5: Capetown (South Africa), 4: Mogadishu (Somalia), 3: Bagdad (Iraq), 2: Ciudad Juarez (Mexico), 1: Caracas (Venezuela)
And if one simply counts the numbers of all murders as min. did, the most dangerous nations are:
10: Russia, 9: Colombia, 8: USA, 7: South Africa, 6: Nigerea, 5: Indonesia, 4: Ethiopia, 3: Mexico, 2: Brazil, 1: India
So when looking at it on a global scale, I wouldn`T say that the availability of firearms has that big of an impact.
I`d say that poverty, secterian conflict, ethnical conflict and political conflict are big contributers to a high homicide rate.
And when I first saw the statistics I was amazed how big the impact of drug trafficing was on the homicide rate.
Honduras, Brazil, Mexico, Panama,..... have higher or the same homicide rates than some of the worst civil war countries in the middle east, central asia and africa.
When looking at the picture on a smaller scale, say: comparing the US states or all "first world" countries, one would have to look at poverty statistics, political conflicts, ethnical divides and other of those and compare them.
(November 27, 2012 at 4:18 am)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote:
(November 26, 2012 at 9:47 pm)whateverist Wrote:
Well if you're going to get all selective about it, lets look at Texas or Arizona. I imagine the murder rate in Texas is higher than eastern europe and south america combined, and that's only counting state sanctioned executions.
Lets take a look.
Homicide rate in Texas 2011: 4.4 per 100 000 people.
(2010: 4.9, 2009: 5.4)
Now the combined homicide rate of north America (Includes Canada) is 3.9 per 100 000 people.
The highest is in southern Africa with 30.5 per 100 000 people.
Central Americas homicide rate is 28.5 per 100 000 - and thereby the highest on the american continents.
South americas combined homicide rate is 20 per 100 000 - and thereby still higher than the one in all of north america - and twice as high than the combined homicide rates of Texas and Arizona.
The eastern european homicide rate is 6.4 per 100 000 people - so higher than north america, higher than the US (4.2) but lower than Texas and Arizona eaven when not combined.
The highest homicide rates in individual nations are:
Honduras (Central America): 91.6 per 100 000,
El Salvador (Central America): 69.2 per 100 000,
Ivory Coast (West Africa): 56.9 per 100 000,
Jamaica (Carabian): 52.2 per 100 000,
Venezuela (South America): 45.1 per 100 000,
Belize (Central America): 41.4 per 100 000,
The lowes homicide rates are:
Palau (Pazific): 0 - not a single murder last year
Hong Kong (Asia): 0.2 per 100 000
Iceland (Europe): 0.3 per 100 000 (one single murder in last year in the entire country)
Here`s a pic which shows where the homicide rates are the highest, (the darker the color - the higher the rate):
[hide]
And the most murderous cities in the World are:
10: Rio De Janero (Brazil), 9: Detroit (USA), 8: Karachi (Pakistan), 7: Grozny (Chechnya), 6: New Orleans (USA), 5: Capetown (South Africa), 4: Mogadishu (Somalia), 3: Bagdad (Iraq), 2: Ciudad Juarez (Mexico), 1: Caracas (Venezuela)
And if one simply counts the numbers of all murders as min. did, the most dangerous nations are:
10: Russia, 9: Colombia, 8: USA, 7: South Africa, 6: Nigerea, 5: Indonesia, 4: Ethiopia, 3: Mexico, 2: Brazil, 1: India
So when looking at it on a global scale, I wouldn`T say that the availability of firearms has that big of an impact.
I`d say that poverty, secterian conflict, ethnical conflict and political conflict are big contributers to a high homicide rate.
And when I first saw the statistics I was amazed how big the impact of drug trafficing was on the homicide rate.
Honduras, Brazil, Mexico, Panama,..... have higher or the same homicide rates than some of the worst civil war countries in the middle east, central asia and africa.
When looking at the picture on a smaller scale, say: comparing the US states or all "first world" countries, one would have to look at poverty statistics, political conflicts, ethnical divides and other of those and compare them.
Plus the government sanctioned execution rate in Texas is closer to 1 in a million than to 4 per 100,000.
(November 26, 2012 at 4:14 pm)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: As much as I love your posts min. Homicide rates are determined by 1 murder per 100 000 people.
The US has 300 000 000 people living in it which cannot be compared to the UK.
Murder rate in the US: 4.2 and in the UK 1.2 so one might think you are right. But the average homicide rate in eastern europe and south america is higher than in the US and they have strickter gun control.
Look carefully. Those are not murder rates. They are gun homicide rates.
So, you are saying we are supposed to equate ourselves with 3d world nations? Thanks, but no thanks.
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