(October 4, 2009 at 2:19 pm)Darwinian Wrote: You can't be disappointed about a situation that not only you knew about but also created can you?

(October 4, 2009 at 2:25 pm)Retorth Wrote: If he knew it would happen all along, being omniscience and omnipotent as he is, he would probably have been disappointed before the creation process. What a screw up

It's like signing up for some course and going for the exam without ever studying, knowing you're going to fail. Why bother, seriously? LOL

I believe God is outside time so I think He is probably disapointed with what happened at that time 'forever' but theres only any point saying it when it has actually happened in our time.

Hes not disappointed in Himself but in others.

(October 4, 2009 at 4:40 pm)chatpilot Wrote: Although there are passages in the bible that say that the sons will not be punished for the sins of their fathers the bible does have passages recognizing that we are being punished for the sins of Adam.
Romans 5:12-14,18,19

I would like to show the same verses in my bible (NIV) as I find that verson to be better and makes more sense here:

12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— 13for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.

18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

At the end of verse 12 it says 'death came to all men, because all sinned' which seems to go against the idea that our death is the fault of Adam. I think the point being made it from the time of Adam onwards the sinful nature took hold, but that we are only condemned if we actually sin. So verse 18 makes sense because all have acted on the sinful naure. Hope that makes sense.

(October 7, 2009 at 9:59 am)solarwave Wrote: I believe God is outside time so I think He is probably disapointed with what happened at that time 'forever' but theres only any point saying it when it has actually happened in our time.

I have heard the phrase "god is outside time" a few times but I do not quite understand what that means. Can you explain it for me? Thanks.

So... he is disappointed in others, who he made to disappoint him? If this being exists outside of time: then he cannot interact with time. Simply: none of his actions will ever happen... because he lacks the fourth dimension in which to do anything. A being outside of time cannot perform any action... for there is no time in which to perform the action.

Quote:I have heard the phrase "god is outside time" a few times but I do not quite understand what that means. Can you explain it for me? Thanks.

In other words a non-temporal being. It's what caused me to stop considering gods existence.
Being outside everything and so thus beyond us and our methods of research.
Making this god impossible to prove and disprove.

Let's rearrange those verses a little so that you can see my perspective on this solar. From those same verses I am going to pull out key passages to illustrate my point. Man has inherited sin through Adam.

14.Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, (even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam),.....

18.Consequently, just as the result of one trespass (Adams disobedience) was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness (Jesus sacrifice) was justification that brings life for all men.
19.For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners

That 19th verse just bring it home.

---

This God was created by the fertile imagination of man and is based on speculation on the many mysteries of life and the universe we live in.

(October 7, 2009 at 11:56 am)Ace Wrote:

Quote:I have heard the phrase "god is outside time" a few times but I do not quite understand what that means. Can you explain it for me? Thanks.

In other words a non-temporal being. It's what caused me to stop considering gods existence.
Being outside everything and so thus beyond us and our methods of research.
Making this god impossible to prove and disprove.

Only impossible to prove... a non-temporal being who acts is a logical contradiction. So he can only exist non-temporally, if the Bible is fiction in almost every way.

Saerules, Blasphemy!! God can do whatever he wants whenever he wants and since he created all things he is not subject to the laws of space and time etc.

Seriously, that is the beauty of Christianity just by stating "God did it and we dont understand how but he did and that is all I have to say about that." Now, how logical of a statement is that? Where is the reason? Being that God is fictional you can make him do anything you want.

Lol ^_^ The creator is subject to the same laws of space (starting with 1=1, and going from there, lest the creator not exist). There is a reason I say that even if we were created... the original universe is naturally cyclic

It's a work of fiction, so they don't have to be right They do, however, need to learn to discern reality from fiction

(October 7, 2009 at 11:28 am)Retorth Wrote: I have heard the phrase "god is outside time" a few times but I do not quite understand what that means. Can you explain it for me? Thanks.

I mean God existed before time and is still outside time and doesn't change. This would be He sees all time as one instant to Him. I dunno how to explain it anymore. I dont mean Hes existed from a long time, but is timeless.

(October 7, 2009 at 11:52 am)Saerules Wrote: So... he is disappointed in others, who he made to disappoint him? If this being exists outside of time: then he cannot interact with time. Simply: none of his actions will ever happen... because he lacks the fourth dimension in which to do anything. A being outside of time cannot perform any action... for there is no time in which to perform the action.

It doesn't mean Hes overall disappointed, just in that point of time for us. It would He doesn't act in the same way we act. I think it would mean all His actions would be performed in an instant and in a way an auto reaction to the world in accordance with His nature, as unlike us He doesn't need time to think about and carry out His actions, they would be instant choices and 'actions'. I think......lol

(October 7, 2009 at 11:56 am)Ace Wrote:

Quote:I have heard the phrase "god is outside time" a few times but I do not quite understand what that means. Can you explain it for me? Thanks.

In other words a non-temporal being. It's what caused me to stop considering gods existence.
Being outside everything and so thus beyond us and our methods of research.
Making this god impossible to prove and disprove.

Because if God is real than the creator of the universe should be testable by the creatures?

chatpilot: I'll answer you next time but I got to go now.

(October 8, 2009 at 4:03 am)solarwave Wrote: I mean God existed before time and is still outside time and doesn't change.

There is no "before time". For the word "before" to have any kind of meaning, time must already exist. If time didn't exist at some point (which the Big Bang theory points to), there was no "before". People ask "well what happened before the Big Bang?" erroneously, since if time didn't exist prior to the Big Bang, the question makes no sense.