(December 30, 2012 at 12:28 pm)SavedByChrist94 Wrote: westboro atheists,

Yes, because atheists are always going around with signs saying "God Hates Fags."

Quote:

(December 30, 2012 at 12:26 pm)TaraJo Wrote: Just...... no.

Where do I begin?

How about this? God is supposed to be all-powerful, right? He created the universe and everything in it, right? He even created the laws of physics and everything else like that, right?

So, God then created suffering when he didn't have to.

And this is where your reply goes down the drain, who said God 'causes' suffering? He does no such thing, only in justice towards evil(murders, rapists, etc), The Argument is He ALLOWS evil, big difference. that is the argument, God must allow suffering to prevent further, suffering.

If he 'had' to create suffering, he isn't all-powerful.

Re-read what I wrote, where did I say He 'created' suffering, changing the word allow with create changes the whole thing.

I said God 'created' suffering, although 'causes' works, too.

How's this for an example: I bit my lip pretty good the other day and that hurt. I actually left a sore there from the cut and it still hurts when I try to eat certain foods. If God did not want that to hurt, he could have created me without pain receptors. Instead, he put nerves all over my body with only one job: feel pain. Clearly pain was part of his devine plan from the very start, which kinda turns God into a psychotic, masochistic fuck if you ask me.

Evil has nothing to do with pain and suffering. The Bible, you holy book, describes 'evil' as things like working on Sunday, homosexuality (I have lots of fun with that one), wearing clothes made out of more than one fabric and eating shrimp. None of those things cause suffering directly. Indirectly, sure, but anything can cause suffering indirectly.

And there are some pretty natural things that cause quit a bit of pain and suffering. Death is a big one; I had a friend die last summer and that was painful for me and the rest of his friends and family. Our own death is probably going to be painful, too. Cancer is pretty natural and it's incredibly painful. Have you ever seen someone die, slowly and painfully, from parkinsons? I have. It's not fun at all. Have you ever watched someone's mind slowly slip away from them while they're in the grips of alzheimers? Again, I have and it's incredibly painful to watch; I can only imagine how painful it is to experience. Have you ever sat there with your partner while she went through a miscarriage? I have and, again, it was painful for both of us.

Free will is a piece of shit argument. One of the first things God does is limit our free will. The claim is that we're all tainted with sin because of original sin, right? Does that mean I have enough free will to sin but I don't have enough to not sin? If God was so concerned with free will that he was willing to sacrifice himself to himself to change his rule, couldn't he have bothered to give us enough free will to reject sin on our own?

You're pretty good at verbal gymnastics, I'll give you that, but explaining things in a complicated way is just a fancy way of making yourself look stupid. Try again.

(December 30, 2012 at 12:47 pm)TaraJo Wrote:

(December 30, 2012 at 12:28 pm)SavedByChrist94 Wrote: westboro atheists,

Yes, because atheists are always going around with signs saying "God Hates Fags."

We go one better:

SavedByChrist Wrote:...and free will must exist in order for human beings with consciousness to exist.

I stopped here, because not only is this an unproven assumption in itself, it assumes that we have free will in the first place. If the very foundations of your argument are assumptions, I have no need to read the rest.

(December 30, 2012 at 12:54 pm)Stimbo Wrote: We go one better:

I had a friend whose church was being protested by haters. We made some signs to mock them with.

(December 30, 2012 at 12:47 pm)TaraJo Wrote:

Yes, because atheists are always going around with signs saying "God Hates Fags."

Exactly, "atheist" slander God just like the westboro does, a True Christian doesn't make God look bad, ESPECIALLY when it's obvious that westboro doesn't accept John 3:16.

westboro are therefore a bunch of atheist wanting to make God look bad, wanting media attention, need to Read The Bible, need help as much "atheist" do" and are propaganda.

Thank you for proving my point.

(December 30, 2012 at 12:47 pm)TaraJo Wrote: I said God 'created' suffering, although 'causes' works, too.

If God did not want that to hurt, he could have created me without pain receptors.

Pain receptors aren't evil, they tell you something is wrong, it's supposed to hurt for your benefit, Causing someone to hurt is taking the good(pain receptors letting you know something is wrong) and causing it unecessarily. so yes without the pain receptors physically and Spiritually we would not know we are about to die or are doing something wrong.

(December 30, 2012 at 12:47 pm)TaraJo Wrote: Evil has nothing to do with pain and suffering. The Bible, you holy book, describes 'evil' as things like working on Sunday,

God(The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit) told this to them to obey, disobeying is lacking good, lacking good is evil.

(December 30, 2012 at 12:47 pm)TaraJo Wrote: homosexuality (I have lots of fun with that one),

Do men biologically procreate sexually with another man or a woman? simple question.

(December 30, 2012 at 12:47 pm)TaraJo Wrote: wearing clothes made out of more than one fabric

Israelite Specific.

(December 30, 2012 at 12:47 pm)TaraJo Wrote: and eating shrimp.

Mark 7:19 and Israelite specific.

(December 30, 2012 at 12:47 pm)TaraJo Wrote: None of those things cause suffering directly. Indirectly, sure, but anything can cause suffering indirectly.

And there are some pretty natural things that cause quit a bit of pain and suffering. Death is a big one;

If God exists, and life doesn't end at the grave the there is no complaining, and it would actually be a gain to that person as they would go Heaven if they are In Jesus Christ. death is no big deal to be honest, no offense, only a big deal because you won't see that person for a while and it feels long.

(December 30, 2012 at 12:47 pm)TaraJo Wrote: I had a friend die last summer and that was painful for me and the rest of his friends and family. Our own death is probably going to be painful, too.

Who cares how painful it is? If Heaven exists then it's like getting pinched, Heaven exists, therefore no big deal and you need to move on, sure it's sad, but how does God cause it? He's going to(if you repent to Him, Jesus Christ) give you them back, so you just cause your own suffering.

(December 30, 2012 at 12:47 pm)TaraJo Wrote: Cancer is pretty natural and it's incredibly painful. Have you ever seen someone die, slowly and painfully, from parkinsons? I have. It's not fun at all. Have you ever watched someone's mind slowly slip away from them while they're in the grips of alzheimers? Again, I have and it's incredibly painful to watch; I can only imagine how painful it is to experience. Have you ever sat there with your partner while she went through a miscarriage? I have and, again, it was painful for both of us.

Death, all those things are a degragation of life, aka Death. Death is an improper function causing pain as pain Warns you(which is good) that you are improperly functioning. life doesn't end at the grave therefore no big deal. man caused death therefore no excuse.

(December 30, 2012 at 12:47 pm)TaraJo Wrote: Free will is a piece of shit argument. One of the first things God does is limit our free will.

How?

(December 30, 2012 at 12:47 pm)TaraJo Wrote: The claim is that we're all tainted with sin because of original sin, right?

you proved that you do not read The Bible, so now you lose all merit in talking about it, calvinism is a false doctrine, like "atheism"

Jeremiah 31:30 Instead, everyone will die for his own sin; whoever eats sour grapes--his own teeth will be set on edge.

Arminianism is The True Christian Doctrine. did you know Hell is the grave aka annihlation, premartial sex is not a sin(promiscuity is though), and desiring a woman isn't a sin? of course not but you do not Study The Bible

(December 30, 2012 at 12:47 pm)TaraJo Wrote: Does that mean I have enough free will to sin but I don't have enough to not sin? If God was so concerned with free will that he was willing to sacrifice himself to himself to change his rule,

Again with calvinism and Penal substitution, both un-Biblical, try again.

(December 30, 2012 at 12:47 pm)TaraJo Wrote: couldn't he have bothered to give us enough free will to reject sin on our own?

We do have free will...

Try again.

---

(December 30, 2012 at 1:00 pm)Faith No More Wrote: [quote='SavedByChrist']
...and free will must exist in order for human beings with consciousness to exist.

I stopped here, because not only is this an unproven assumption in itself, it assumes that we have free will in the first place. If the very foundations of your argument are assumptions, I have no need to read the rest.

If you cannot choose to do something what are you? surely you cannot think, as thinking relies on choice, "what's going on?", "my opinion", "what I see", you can't thin and think is opinion. Free Will is a Necessity.

(December 30, 2012 at 1:37 pm)SavedByChrist94 Wrote:

(December 30, 2012 at 12:47 pm)TaraJo Wrote:

Yes, because atheists are always going around with signs saying "God Hates Fags."

Exactly, "atheist" slander God just like the westboro does, a True Christian doesn't make God look bad, ESPECIALLY when it's obvious that westboro doesn't accept John 3:16.

westboro are therefore a bunch of atheist wanting to make God look bad, wanting media attention, need to Read The Bible, need help as much "atheist" do" and are propaganda.

Thank you for proving my point.

Now you dont just sound stupid, but as if you had jumped out of the conspiracy 9/11 truther compartment.

What is a true christian? You bible tells you to execute homosexuals, do you comply? if not - are you still a "true" christian?

I bet Osama Bin Laden was certain of him and of his followers being the true muslims.

Westboro are christians, they just take that bronze age mythbook called the bible completly literal and dont ignore the parts modern secular sociaty has found to be inhuman.
So in a way they are more "true" than you are.

Wanna be a "true" christian?

Grab a knife and go kill some people just like your bible tells you to, that way we at least dont have to read you nonsence anymore

(December 30, 2012 at 12:20 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Why is there a depressingly large contingent of fundies who seem to think that all the world's problems can be solved - permanently - by playing with logic? Reality doesn't work that way.

That is an insightful comment!

Gerard

Thank you. I do get 'em occasionally...

Hey, Tara

"God" hates shellfish, too.

Lev. 11:12

Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.


God is an asshole.

I think he has point.
I too dislike shellfish.