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~~fr0d0~~ · January 22, 2013 at 4:46 pm

(January 22, 2013 at 11:26 am)Celi Wrote: That's what Satan is for in Christianity: a scapegoat for the imperfection of the world.

I would disagree. Satan represents the opposing force to good (God). I personally want bleeding edge reality. Anything less would not be abundant life. Rough and smooth.

~~Edwardo Piet~~ · January 22, 2013 at 5:02 pm

Why is an opposing force necessary?

killybob · January 22, 2013 at 5:09 pm

(January 22, 2013 at 4:46 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:
(January 22, 2013 at 11:26 am)Celi Wrote: That's what Satan is for in Christianity: a scapegoat for the imperfection of the world.

I would disagree. Satan represents the opposing force to good (God). I personally want bleeding edge reality. Anything less would not be abundant life. Rough and smooth.

Yeah but he's not the opposing force to good - Jesus supposedly defeated the Devil when he was supposedly crucified. Besides, saying that would imply that the devil was about as powerful as God himself. Or maybe he is... I mean, he seems pretty good at messing up God's apparently perfect plan for the world. Also, isn't good supposed to get rid of evil when it's defeated? The fact that, according to your theology, God has still failed to do so seems to suggest that: either he can't - he's just not strong enough to overpower the devil; or God's not entirely good, and is showing his cruel streak by allowing the devil to continue to harass humanity. And just in case you were going to, don't give me that crap about "oh but if God took away evil, it would impose on our free will". God's obviously never cared about our free will as he not only has a plan for us, but is also ready to punish us eternally if we don't make choices that he approves of.

pocaracas · January 22, 2013 at 6:11 pm

(January 22, 2013 at 4:05 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:
(January 22, 2013 at 11:05 am)pocaracas Wrote: Why hopeless?

Purpose + meaning = hope

Without those there is no hope. Some if not most atheists don't see that as a bad thing.

(January 22, 2013 at 4:09 pm)Ryantology Wrote:

Atheism doesn't prevent one's own life from having purpose and meaning.

If anything, it is more meaningful and purposeful to be atheist, because as a theist, your purpose is a meaningless fraud. You're wasting your life because your stupid faith tells you that there's an afterlife and it's more important that the one you're living now. Rest assured, I make no such mistake.

It does mean that human life, as a whole, has no meaning or purpose. But who the fuck cares? We do fine without it, and the illusion of it does you no good.

(January 22, 2013 at 4:25 pm)killybob Wrote:

(January 22, 2013 at 4:05 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Purpose + meaning = hope

Without those there is no hope. Some if not most atheists don't see that as a bad thing.

The universe doesn't owe us a sense of hope. Plus, that equation makes no sense. Hope is the feeling of expectation and desire for something to happen or present itself. It can also be used to mean a feeling of trust, or be a grounds for believing that something good may happen.
Purpose + meaning = purpose and meaning.
Or perhaps you're talking about an entirely different, made up concept and are just using the word "hope" as a carrier for your new meaning.

Besides, we Atheists create our own sense purpose to achieve a sense of fulfilment, and our life has all the more meaning to it, as we know it's the only one we're gonna get, so we try to live it out to the best we can.

To be honest, I don't see why our existence must have a meaning or purpose. You're alive right now, so why not get the most out of it, instead of worshipping and running in circles, being directed by the invisible, non-tangible sky man, who seems to be playing an awfully long game of hide and seek with humanity. Get real man, your world view is no fun at all. It sucks dry the joys of life by imposing useless rules and regulations which only serve to constrict your already limited existence.

I really have nothing more to add, after these two fine responses.

~~fr0d0~~ · January 22, 2013 at 7:06 pm

(January 22, 2013 at 5:02 pm)HalcyonicTrust Wrote: Why is an opposing force necessary?

Ask physics

Also, see entropy

It's as basic as that in my mind. Thomas Aquinas saw it the same. A force for good, creating good, attracts the opposite force. It is the working natural order.

Surtr · (This post was last modified: January 22, 2013 at 7:25 pm by Surtr.)

(January 22, 2013 at 7:06 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: A force for good, creating good, attracts the opposite force. It is the working natural order.

Satan didn't spontaneously appear. He was created. By God. And God knew that he would fall and become corrupted.

Celi · (This post was last modified: January 22, 2013 at 7:49 pm by Celi.)

(January 22, 2013 at 4:43 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:
(January 22, 2013 at 11:26 am)Celi Wrote: You know next to nothing about my worldview.
All I said about your world view was that it was sans God. That's all I needed to say to make the generalisation. I accept that there may be exceptions.

My point was that knowing that somebody is atheist doesn't tell you anything about their worldview, personality or beliefs (aside from non-belief in a theistic god, obviously). You might be able to assume that the person is a rationalist and probably materialist, but there are exceptions even to that--you certainly can't assume they think life is meaningless.

People can give their lives purpose, and it has meaning to themselves and the other people they know. (And presumably we can just sort of mash those two things together to create "hope", or something. I'm honestly not sure what you're talking about there.) For me, that's enough.

pocaracas · January 22, 2013 at 8:36 pm

(January 22, 2013 at 7:06 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:
(January 22, 2013 at 5:02 pm)HalcyonicTrust Wrote: Why is an opposing force necessary?

Ask physics

Also, see entropy

It's as basic as that in my mind. Thomas Aquinas saw it the same. A force for good, creating good, attracts the opposite force. It is the working natural order.

I fail to see how a psychological "force" can be paralleled to a physical force.
"Force to good" ... what is that?

~~fr0d0~~ · (This post was last modified: January 22, 2013 at 8:48 pm by fr0d0.)

(January 22, 2013 at 7:43 pm)Celi Wrote: My point was that knowing that somebody is atheist doesn't tell you anything about their worldview, personality or beliefs (aside from non-belief in a theistic god, obviously).

Exactly.

Entertaining meaning and purpose would put you within the realm of metaphysics. Religious atheists would be an exception.

I've yet to come across an atheist who can rationalise a hopeful world view (Of those atheists actually capable of rational thought, most aren't).

(January 22, 2013 at 7:43 pm)Celi Wrote: For me, that's enough.

Just "enough"

Surtr · January 22, 2013 at 8:49 pm

(January 22, 2013 at 8:46 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: I've yet to come across an atheist who can rationalise a hopeful world view

What? Are you talking about a worldview or a purpose for humanity?

Quote:(Of those atheists actually capable of rational thought, most aren't).

That's a very baseless assumption.

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