Do you look at each issue and generally come to a centrist conclusion, or are you taking each issue, and then applying centrism?

That is a very nice suit...

Quote: But I myself am a centrist, because centrism allows freedom of thought

I don't get what you mean here, do you mean a centrist government would allow freedom of thought compared to the others? It can't be this meaning because the libertarians would (left? Arguable). Or that a centrist philosophy means "come to your own damn conclusions", because it wouldn't mean that either.

(February 11, 2013 at 2:31 am)fr0d0 Wrote:

(February 11, 2013 at 12:38 am)Tiberius Wrote: ...I'm not.

Sorry to dally...
But you're happy for business's to drive down minimum wage to below sustenance levels because the market polices itself?

No, I'm not happy with business doing that. I'm completely against it, and if any company offered me a job with such a wage, I would refuse it. So should anyone else with any sense.

My position is: companies should be allowed to offer such wages, and government should not be setting the minimum value of work. Like it or not, but any wage or salary is an agreement between an employee and an employer. If a company offered a job for $1 an hour, people are not going to take it, since it would be absurd to try and live off that amount (without being homeless of course). What happens when nobody takes up the $1 an hour job? Well, the company is losing money by not having the position filled, so they must make it more enticing...i.e. increase the wage.

This is only one factor of a self-regulating market; people also (generally) do not like to support business that treats employees badly. Consumer action might not be powerful in a corporatist society where businesses are kept alive by governments despite public opinion, but in a capitalist society, consumer action can kill a company very quickly.

So no, I'm not happy with businesses driving down wages to ridiculous levels. However, I'm happy to let them try and see how fucked they get when nobody comes to work for them and people boycott them for being assholes.

Well the real bad guy is the consumer, because they have no morals when it comes to lower prices. Only government, it seems, is capable of acting on behalf of the moral minority.

(February 11, 2013 at 2:49 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Natural selection at its best

Damn right. It's the bestest ever

(February 11, 2013 at 3:12 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Well the real bad guy is the consumer, because they have no morals when it comes to lower prices. Only government, it seems, is capable of acting on behalf of the moral minority.

...and the problem you get when you give government this power is called corporatism. Government can't, and shouldn't, be trusted to do the right thing.

Neither should corporations of course, if the system is set up so that it is more beneficial for corporations to do the right thing, I believe most of them will. The people who run corporations are not usually stupid.

Something tells me the OP is an artifact of a base rate fallacy and a selection bias effect, but my brain has the night off, so I have no substantive comment.

One problem with no/self regulation of business; 1929 happens.

(February 11, 2013 at 4:53 am)Tobie Wrote: One problem with no/self regulation of business; 1929 happens.

I don't think business has to do with the calendar system.

(February 11, 2013 at 3:01 am)Tiberius Wrote: No, I'm not happy with business doing that. I'm completely against it, and if any company offered me a job with such a wage, I would refuse it. So should anyone else with any sense.

But the problem with this is that not everyone is sensible and then there's desperation. During the latest depression, my best friend was unemployed, though she had recently graduated from a vocational school in an area that usually had a lot of industry that needed people with her education. She went to every single place that offered a job (and didn't get any of the jobs), she did classes for unemployed people as to get financial support from the government, did all the paperwork etc, but in the end she ended up cleaning with a salary barely bigger than the government subsidization and with absolutely crappy hours, because she couldn't stand being home all day doing nothing. She said that she rather work for her money than get it from taxpayers.

So no, even though minimum wage usually shouldn't be tempting at all, there will always be someone willing to take it, because the alternative sucks even more. Remember Tibs, you are an amazing computer whiz with skill that makes you able to negotiate your salary, not everyone are so competent and have needed skills in order to do that.

(February 11, 2013 at 4:14 am)Tiberius Wrote: The people who run corporations are not usually stupid.

Guided by their wallets does not equal fair minded