(February 16, 2013 at 2:12 pm)LastPoet Wrote: Well, well, ol' Chad, I figured you couldn't stay away from the dark side too long

Yeah, I must be a glutton for punishment.

(February 16, 2013 at 6:38 pm)Esquilax Wrote:

(February 16, 2013 at 12:10 pm)Drich Wrote: My question is what makes you think that your (either one of you) interpretation of scripture (seeing as both of you do not believe in God) is on par with mine?

THAT HAS BEEN MY QUESTION TO YOU FROM THE VERY BEGINNING OH MY GOD!

You finally answered it too, which is something. However, an experienced apologist is still an apologist; you're still trying to convince us of god's intent by twisting the meaning of paragraphs that are laid out to us pretty bare. If you want to do that, you're going to need to demonstrate to us how you know what either the original author, or the divine inspiration behind it, really meant to say. Otherwise, why should your opinion count more than what's really there, because what's written down... is written down.

Ah, no. Your questions all centered contextual content of the bible, and the Christians obligation to follow the bible. Ryan was trying to claim that everyone who reads the bible do so on equal footing. If I am not answering the question you think your asking the rephrase.

As far as separating myself further I have spent quit a bit of my studies, studying the Greek and Hebrew texts. At any point you want to take the scriptures back to the orginal Greek or Hebrew just ask. Otherwise the only time I plan to share the Greek or Hebrew text is to contest a popular English interpretation.

I like the way the bigots and haters use the bible to justify their hatred even though their jesus never spoke against homosexuality.

Quote:Ryan was trying to claim that everyone who reads the bible do so on equal footing. If I am not answering the question you think your asking the rephrase.

Because, this is true. You don't have to believe something is true to get some kind of magical understanding of words on a page which is superior to anyone else's. You've probably read the bible more thoroughly than I have, but I can approach it with a critical eye. You are not free to interpret it without preconceptions, and you have to dredge up a dozen unrelated passages so that you can 'clarify' the meaning of a direct and unambiguous statement. How can that be anything but self-serving prestidigitation, to make it sound as though your brand of worship is acceptable? It seems to me that it is much less than Christ expects out of you, but that's between you and your imaginary friend.

The Bible itself has no built-in interpretation guide, so I have no reason whatsoever to accept that you are interpreting this accurately, especially when directly interpreting it makes your devotion to your god look incomplete and subject to your convenience (not to mention, modern secular morals).

(February 17, 2013 at 7:05 am)Zen Badger Wrote: I like the way the bigots and haters use the bible to justify their hatred even though their jesus never spoke against homosexuality.

He spoke of all sex outside of a Santified marriage as being a sin. (Even the thought of it) This would include homosexuality. Again this does not make it the unforgivable sin, but a sin none the less. One that needs to be repented of like anyother.

If it were proven that any religion were correct, then acceptance of the notion that any form of sex is "impure" might be acceptable. Until such a time as this is proven, empirical evidence as to the legitimate dangers of any action. Any law posited by a god or goddess without given explanation is arbitrary, and morality and laws should not simply be arbitrary, it's unjust. There is no strong secular reason for why any of the LGBT community should be oppressed in favour of heterosexuality.

(February 17, 2013 at 7:39 am)Ryantology Wrote:

Quote:Ryan was trying to claim that everyone who reads the bible do so on equal footing. If I am not answering the question you think your asking the rephrase.

Because, this is true. You don't have to believe something is true to get some kind of magical understanding of words on a page which is superior to anyone else's. You've probably read the bible more thoroughly than I have, but I can approach it with a critical eye. You are not free to interpret it without preconceptions, and you have to dredge up a dozen unrelated passages so that you can 'clarify' the meaning of a direct and unambiguous statement. How can that be anything but self-serving prestidigitation, to make it sound as though your brand of worship is acceptable? It seems to me that it is much less than Christ expects out of you, but that's between you and your imaginary friend.

The Bible itself has no built-in interpretation guide, so I have no reason whatsoever to accept that you are interpreting this accurately, especially when directly interpreting it makes your devotion to your god look incomplete and subject to your convenience (not to mention, modern secular morals).

Just like a history student can read a given history book for the first time alone side the teacher who has been teaching out of that book for twenty years, and possibly get everything on page.. It is extremely unlikely. If what you suggest were common place then why do we need history teachers anyway? Why not just have students read their history books like you claim to be able to read the bible and save our collective communities billions of dollars a year? Oh that's right because without having someone, with what you identified as a "preconception" the students would all most likely trivialize the whole subject, get lost in what they think they already know and quit before they have a working understanding of the subject.

Sound familiar yet?

(February 13, 2013 at 7:39 pm)pop_punks_not_dead Wrote: Before I became an atheist I used to be a Catholic, and being a gay guy in a Catholic environment was hard :-(

I got sick of hearing leviticus quoted at me constantly, read the Bible and realised that it was with respect unbelievable .

So I realised that God makes no sense logically to me, and looking at science I noticed that I am an atheist.

Just wondering if anyone has ever tried to be gay and a Christian? I got told it would wind me up in Hell or something

There are LOTS of gay priests and other clergy around the world. IT is not speculation at all.

IF you read the bible - you can normally contradict anything said - with another quote from the bible. The bible was written by male dominant ancients at a time when women were property of their males - much as the koran was as well.

The bible clearly says that the christ will NOT ALLOW a woman to hold any authority over a man. The way for them to be "saved" is for them to learn in quiet and in FULL submission and are saved by child bearing.

I refer the woman to the chapter - and then tell them - why should I believe in something YOU do not.

(February 17, 2013 at 11:22 am)Drich Wrote: Just like a history student can read a given history book for the first time alone side the teacher who has been teaching out of that book for twenty years, and possibly get everything on page.. It is extremely unlikely. If what you suggest were common place then why do we need history teachers anyway? Why not just have students read their history books like you claim to be able to read the bible and save our collective communities billions of dollars a year? Oh that's right because without having someone, with what you identified as a "preconception" the students would all most likely trivialize the whole subject, get lost in what they think they already know and quit before they have a working understanding of the subject.

Sound familiar yet?

If a history teacher told me that his interpretation of history is more accurate than mine because he has read a certain book on the subject more times than I have, I would immediately dismiss him as the fraud he was.

Even if it's meant to be a sin the idea in Christianity is that you're being saved from your sins so you will need to sin at least a bit in order for there to be some kind of point. You will just have to feel guilty about and repent regularly.