(February 25, 2013 at 6:46 pm)Question Mark Wrote: ...I could finally convince people of the little girl who lives in my fire place.

I thought she was in the radiator?

(February 25, 2013 at 6:59 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:

(February 25, 2013 at 6:46 pm)Question Mark Wrote: ...I could finally convince people of the little girl who lives in my fire place.

I thought she was in the radiator?

Heresy! You must be horrifically killed for thinking such a thing!

(February 25, 2013 at 6:33 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: But even I'm surprised..."real human beings"?. I don't find it rational to demonize those with whom you disagree.

Don't flatter yourself. It takes qualifications to be a demon.

(February 25, 2013 at 4:10 pm)Drich Wrote:

(February 25, 2013 at 12:35 pm)catfish Wrote: It truly takes a sick fuck to condone human sacrifice too...

No one is talking about Human sacrifice Fishy.

Your blind, an idiot or a liar.... I'll allow you to choose using your free will.

From two posts above mine:
"However His teachings focoused on the foundations of freedoms that would be found living under His sacerfice. "
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(February 25, 2013 at 6:18 pm)Ryantology Wrote: I think the more pertinent question is "why couldn't God find someplace for the Jews to become a great nation that didn't involve slaughtering thousands of their neighbors?" There were enormous parts of the world which were almost entirely uninhabited and remained so until a few centuries ago.

Why did the orginal colonists decided to settle North America, Central, South America, Australia, The South Pacific Islands? Any and All Inhabitable lands with an indigious people that have been taken once they saw it was already occupied? Because all of the best places already have people living there. Otherwise the land would be known as a desert.

Quote:Equating children with animals?

Where children sacerficed for the forgivness of sin? animals were.

Quote:Because the almighty creator of everything could not have possibly found a faster, more efficient way of doing that. I see no reason to even require a sacrifice. It's arbitrary and pointless.

So on your authority, there would be no blood shed, But on God's (The Creator of Everything) Authority there is. The question is why does your 'authority' or why should your authority superceed God's?

Quote:It's like, I wanna forgive you, but I can't do that until people die.

No. Sin=Death. all who sin owe a death. only Christ can die for another.

Quote:I love how, on one hand, apologists will sequester God in the depths of metaphysics so that science can never examine (and disprove) his existence, but when this God influences the physical world, he can't do anything better than humans do. He can influence the Israelites to go psycho on their neighbors, but it is apparently far beyond his talents to convince these neighbors to ally and find common cause.

So what of free will?

Quote:It's funny that you insist we can't judge God by human standards, yet here you are basically saying "well, we do it this way, why is it wrong for God to do it this way"? Once more, you are betraying the impotence (and pointlessness) of the God you worship. He can't do it any better than we do it ourselves.

Why would He do anything differently? As I keep pointing out to you all, God is the God of the natural world. Why would He automatically be resigned to doing things outside the natural order of things?(when He put the Natural order of things in motion) You are confusing your idea of God (one that I might point out even in your own mind, does not work.) For the God protrayed in the Bible.

The VAST Majority of God's will is accomplished through what most of you would dismiss as common place.

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(February 25, 2013 at 6:46 pm)Question Mark Wrote: I should provide the evidence for you to show me? If only the world worked like that, I could finally convince people of the little girl who lives in my fire place.

If a man says he is looking for a dog, is it wrong to ask what the dog he is looking for looks like? Or are those who are helping the man look for the dog supposed to bring him every random dog that can be found till he/you approve of the dog before you?

Sounds like a fools errand to me. For if YOU Do Not Know What You Are Looking For How Am I Expected to Help You find It? How Will You Know If The Dog/Proof Your Looking For Is Not Already Before You? (If you don't know what proof is.)

Will you rely on your peers to tell you what to think? Or can you tell me what you believe Proof to be?

(February 25, 2013 at 3:41 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Your hostility to the Word clearly shows. With your heart hardened against it, you will see only the surface letter of the Word. Because the inner spiritual significance of the Word remains closed to you, you blaspheme against it. The Word opens up when approached with humility and receptivity to the Spirit of Truth. It could do that for you if you let it.

This is a great way to avoid actually having to consider the opinions of others; "Oh, the truth is there, you just refuse to see it." What a fantastic way to close yourself off from ever having to consider dissenting opinions, strawman anyone who disagrees with you, and cover up for the inconsistencies and immoralities of your holy book.

In one sentence you've managed to shut down any hope of a rational and sane discourse in the most passive aggressive way possible. Congratulations on finding the brakes on rational and measured discussion. Great job.

(February 25, 2013 at 9:08 pm)Drich Wrote: If a man says he is looking for a dog, is it wrong to ask what the dog he is looking for looks like? Or are those who are helping the man look for the dog supposed to bring him every random dog that can be found till he/you approve of the dog before you?

Difference between a god and a dog, is that I've seen a dog before. I'm not sure that either you or I have ever seen a god.

To use your analogy, if you'd like to bring me every single god you know of to me until you find the right one to show me, be my absolute guest. If instead we're looking for clues as to the where abouts of the "dog", then some characteristics of the beast might be a start.
What characteristics of there of your god? That might set us on the path of discovering some clues to its existence.

(February 26, 2013 at 12:07 am)Question Mark Wrote:

(February 25, 2013 at 9:08 pm)Drich Wrote: If a man says he is looking for a dog, is it wrong to ask what the dog he is looking for looks like? Or are those who are helping the man look for the dog supposed to bring him every random dog that can be found till he/you approve of the dog before you?

Difference between a god and a dog, is that I've seen a dog before. I'm not sure that either you or I have ever seen a god.

To use your analogy, if you'd like to bring me every single god you know of to me until you find the right one to show me, be my absolute guest. If instead we're looking for clues as to the where abouts of the "dog", then some characteristics of the beast might be a start.
What characteristics of there of your god? That might set us on the path of discovering some clues to its existence.

And that is the heart of the matter. Religions makes enough impossible and contradictory claims about the characteristics of their gods as to establish them as being impossible to exist.

Example - "Almighty" (Nothing is impossible with god - Luke) - cannot be true. Any god claimed as such cannot exist.
Any religion that claims free will - and an All Knowing god - cannot be true as well -that is a direct contradiction.
It is in the "perfections" that religions prove their lack of reality.
Another example - in a monotheism - and in polytheisms like Xtianity where there was only ONE creator - that creator had to create everything good - and everything bad - because it would have ultimately created everything - no other being has that power.

So - in Xtianity - the creator god is the source of all evil and cannot be ALL good - ALL just - ALL fair - and lots of others.

(February 26, 2013 at 12:07 am)Question Mark Wrote: Difference between a god and a dog, is that I've seen a dog before. I'm not sure that either you or I have ever seen a god.

That's just it. Christ in Luke 11:5-13 Makes a promise. That if you Ask Seek Knock as His parable outlines, you will be given a measure of the Holy Spirit. Meaning you will get to experience God for yourself.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...rsion=NKJV

Quote:To use your analogy, if you'd like to bring me every single god you know of to me until you find the right one to show me, be my absolute guest. If instead we're looking for clues as to the where abouts of the "dog", then some characteristics of the beast might be a start.

That's not my analogy. I preface my analogy by saying that bringing you dogs till you find the one you are looking for, would be a fool's errand. For what if you weren't looking for a Dog at all? what if you just wanted to see how many dogs people were willing to bring before they shook the dust from their feet with you and moved on?

That is why it is not an unreasonable request to ask what it is you are looking for Exactly. Because again If you do not know then how do you hope to know when you found it?

Quote:What characteristics of there of your god? That might set us on the path of discovering some clues to its existence.

If we A/S/K (Ask Seek Knock) as outlined in Luke 11 we can expect the receive a measure of the Holy Spirit. when this happens the first thing we will note is an awareness of the sins in our lives that are keeping us from a full relationship with god. If we are faithful to this awaking we will be given more of the Holy Spirit. In the way of Spiritual Fruit: Gal 5:22&23http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians%205&version=NKJV

If we are faithful with the Spiritual fruit we will receive Spiritual gifts:
1cor 12http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Corinthians+12&version=NKJV
(the whole Chapter.) It is in these Spiritual gifts that we become acutly aware of God.

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(February 26, 2013 at 12:27 am)ThomM Wrote: And that is the heart of the matter. Religions makes enough impossible and contradictory claims about the characteristics of their gods as to establish them as being impossible to exist.

Perception is the key here. If you are willing to Look at the Bible to define the Characteristics of God Nothing you have listed here will go with out a settling explaination.

Quote:Example - "Almighty" (Nothing is impossible with god - Luke) - cannot be true. Any god claimed as such cannot exist.

Why? What does Almighty mean to you? Does your defination have a built in paradox? If so, does that mean nothing can be almight or does it mean you have a flawed defination?

Quote:Any religion that claims free will - and an All Knowing god - cannot be true as well -that is a direct contradiction.

What is 'free will?' According to how the bible describes it is not the greek philosphy that say one has complete atonomy to pick and choose his or her life without influence. "Free will" as the bible describes it is the ablity to freely seek attonement/forgiveness for sin. That's it. That is the only 'free will' we have been offered.

For the Bible tells us we are living the oppsite of the Greek philosphy of free will. It says our wills are bound in slavery to sin, that we have no choice but to sin. Where our one choice comes in is to seek redemption if we to be with God, or we have the oppertunity to remain apart from God.

Quote:It is in the "perfections" that religions prove their lack of reality.

Then maybe do not look to the 'religions' for your answers.

Quote:Another example - in a monotheism - and in polytheisms like Xtianity where there was only ONE creator - that creator had to create everything good - and everything bad - because it would have ultimately created everything - no other being has that power.

So?

Quote:So - in Xtianity - the creator god is the source of all evil and cannot be ALL good - ALL just - ALL fair - and lots of others.

-or- Just maybe you have a flawed understanding of Good and Evil..

This whole A/S/K thing is nothing more than a twisted way of making the believer lose another bolt of rationality. As a hypothetical believer, I could be so desperate for a personal revelation that I convince myself that after A/S/King the sudden wind blowing outside my room is the answer and I'll shoehorn my own meaning (derived from my subconscious desires) into what God supposedly said to me in answer to A/S/King, because you know, God speaks in such mysterious ways that we have the task of decyphering it everytime.

*stomach growls*
Me: Dear God almighty, should I have pizza for dinner?
*wind blows*
*I pick up phone*
Me: I'd like to have a meatlovers, thanks!