(February 26, 2013 at 11:32 pm)Drich Wrote: Without a doubt this happens alot especially when one thinks God is his own personal Genie. However when the wishes stop, and one Earnestly A/S/K God shows up and when He does there is not doubt who He is.

It's all apart of the process of maturing.

You are only demonstrating what I said in my last post: you'll never get the 'correct' answer until you've made all the proper assumptions. It is impossible to A/S/K from a position of unbelief and be convinced, which makes the entire concept of A/S/K absolutely worthless to anybody. Either you're asking a question to which you've already made up the answer you seek, or you're never going to get an answer at all.

(February 27, 2013 at 12:06 am)Drich Wrote:

(February 26, 2013 at 11:43 pm)Question Mark Wrote: It sounds like you're trying to say that the A/S/K procedure can be unbiased, despite the predication that you already assume that the foundations of believing in the the christian god specifically have already been accepted.

Do you have a 6th grade version of your post you would like to share?

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I'm sorry, are you having a hard time following what I'm saying?

Drich Wrote:Now take another step back and follow your thought to it's conclusion.. Months tick by, maybe even years, and at some point the 'believer' (maybe after after loosing the girl he wanted to someone elses even after he had struck a deal with his idea of God) concludes he has been behind his own experience of god all along. Then what happpens? Then the disgruntled misotheists takes the name Atheist because 'Miso/hate' and intollerance is a soceitial sin that is not easily over come. Starts an anti God Campaign (unknowingly this is most likly the first bit of honest 'seeking' the Miso, has ever done.) Unfortunatly pride keeps the Miso from the Ask/Knock part because of "ALL" the "Christian things" he did in the past.

I'll take your stabs at my personal life as a sign that I'm getting to you. Here's something else I haven't told you about that missions trip (I think):

2 of my friends and myself were getting ready for bed. We all jumped into our beds and whipped out our Bibles. I was reading a passage about treasures being stored in heaven and this raised a particular question I had, so I asked one of my friends. Before long, he basically started painting this picture before me of God's never-ending love for us via different verses. The more he explained this, the warmer I felt in my chest. I was trying my hardest to stay focused on what he was telling me, but I couldn't keep it in and I cracked. I started crying so hard at this overwhelming feeling that came over me that I got up and headed to the bathroom to clean myself up. For the next 15-20 minutes I couldn't stop crying (and sweating from this intense warm feeling inside of me). It was getting late so we had to turn off the lights and go to bed, but there I was still silently sobbing to myself at how compassionate God was. From then on, I knew I had had a personal experience with God.

I, like you, had up to that point already accepted that God existed, that he had a personal relationship with everyone, that Jesus was his Son & that the Bible speaks the truth. Like in 1984, I let go of reason (i.e. God never appearing despite my sincere belief in him) and went with faith. The result? Fooling myself, just like you do, that I had encountered God.

(February 26, 2013 at 10:01 pm)Ryantology Wrote: A/S/K is fraudulent and false advertising.

What is being advertized? that anyone who A/S/K will experience The Holy Spirit/God. How is this false advertising?

Quote: It cannot work for anyone who is in a position of ignorance of God or incredulous about him.

Have you considered that the reason this method was put into place was to help seperate the wheat and the weeds? To even further seperate the wheat from the Chaff?

God Demands that we first Humble ourselves before Him, and then allow Him to lift us up.
Ever think that if You can not Humble yourself before God and do this one thing, then maybe He does not want anything to do with you?

Quote:You cannot even begin the process until you make six huge, incredible assumptions:

1. God exists.
2. God is a personal God.
3. All other Gods are false.
4. Jesus existed.
5. Jesus died for your sins.
6. The Bible is the infallible word of God (how can you trust the verses which allegedly instruct you how to A/S/K if you doubt the book's veracity?)

NONE of this stuff is needed. Christ tells us (whether you believe it or even know of it or not.. All that one needs to have is the faith of a mustard seed that will lead him to A/S/K, and the Holy Spirit will take care of the rest of your list and then some.

When I started I could not check any of those items off of the list. All I had was an honest desire to know the truth, and enough loyality to be faithful to what God gave me. And even then I was only as faithful as i needed to be. The only real thing I brought to this adventure was a driving desire to know God if there was a God to be known.

Quote:By the time you've gotten to the point where you can make yourself even begin to A/S/K, you've already padlocked all the doors in your mind which can ever lead you to doubt that you're going to get precisely the answer you expect. A/S/K is nothing more than convoluted mental masturbation.

How long does one masturbate before he has the courage to A/S/K out a proper mate?

Quote:Didn't I already shoot this 1984 A/s/k thing down already? I think it had something to do with Chocolate last time.

I was trying to find the thread to see how it had ended, but I couldn't find it.

I highly doubt you shot it down. Philosophical points aren't your strong suit, so I doubt you came anywhere near showing that A/S/K/ isn't a self-torture-based system for "achieving" a personal revelation.

(February 27, 2013 at 12:24 am)Question Mark Wrote: [quote='Drich' pid='406805' dateline='1361937966']

Do you have a 6th grade version of your post you would like to share?

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I'm sorry, are you having a hard time following what I'm saying?
[/quote]

There is no need to appologise for your inablity to communicate, I understand pomp and circumstance has one default to the 'fancy words' when they are on their heels. Just rephrase and try again.

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(February 27, 2013 at 12:27 am)FallentoReason Wrote: [quote="Drich"]Now take another step back and follow your thought to it's conclusion.. Months tick by, maybe even years, and at some point the 'believer' (maybe after after loosing the girl he wanted to someone elses even after he had struck a deal with his idea of God) concludes he has been behind his own experience of god all along. Then what happpens? Then the disgruntled misotheists takes the name Atheist because 'Miso/hate' and intollerance is a soceitial sin that is not easily over come. Starts an anti God Campaign (unknowingly this is most likly the first bit of honest 'seeking' the Miso, has ever done.) Unfortunatly pride keeps the Miso from the Ask/Knock part because of "ALL" the "Christian things" he did in the past.

Quote:I'll take your stabs at my personal life as a sign that I'm getting to you. Here's something else I haven't told you about that missions trip (I think):

Wow, I am honestly embarrassed. I totally forgot you shared that with me. I was not speaking to your situation specifically, I honestly was speaking to something that happens alot in general. I am really sorry about that. It's not that what you told me was not remembered, I generally assoicate you all with your avatars, and since you changed yours I am having trouble remembering all of your specifics.

Quote:2 of my friends and myself were getting ready for bed. We all jumped into our beds and whipped out our Bibles. I was reading a passage about treasures being stored in heaven and this raised a particular question I had, so I asked one of my friends. Before long, he basically started painting this picture before me of God's never-ending love for us via different verses. The more he explained this, the warmer I felt in my chest. I was trying my hardest to stay focused on what he was telling me, but I couldn't keep it in and I cracked. I started crying so hard at this overwhelming feeling that came over me that I got up and headed to the bathroom to clean myself up. For the next 15-20 minutes I couldn't stop crying (and sweating from this intense warm feeling inside of me). It was getting late so we had to turn off the lights and go to bed, but there I was still silently sobbing to myself at how compassionate God was. From then on, I knew I had had a personal experience with God.

I, like you, had up to that point already accepted that God existed, that he had a personal relationship with everyone, that Jesus was his Son & that the Bible speaks the truth. Like in 1984, I let go of reason (i.e. God never appearing despite my sincere belief in him) and went with faith. The result? Fooling myself, just like you do, that I had encountered God.

I have no doubt what you experienced was genuine. At the time I am sure you thought so too. Now Imagine walking everyday with that connected/close feeling you had. would you have doubts now? what if that Feeling developed into a ask me anything, and you will get an answer relationship? where would your belief be then? Now what if it cost you everything you ever wanted for yourself, would you give it up, and trust that God will provide you with everything you need? I am not asking you now, I am asking the kid that felt the presents of God. what would he say?

(February 27, 2013 at 12:31 am)Drich Wrote:

(February 27, 2013 at 12:24 am)Question Mark Wrote: I'm sorry, are you having a hard time following what I'm saying?

There is no need to appologise for your inablity to communicate, I understand pomp and circumstance has one default to the 'fancy words' when they are on their heels. Just rephrase and try again.

No problem, I'll use words with less than four syllables.

ASK, Ask, Seek Knock.

Ask and it shall be given to you, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened to you.
In effect, ask god to prove himself to you, and apparently he will. The clever cover up here is that if someone is bent upon finding god, then sure, they'll fool themselves into believing it for any reason. I've heard of people walking through parks and seeing three waterfalls on a decorative water display, and interpreting it as a sign of the trinity.
Anyone of moderate or skeptical tendencies who isn't going to fall into something so fanciful, are brushed off as not having enough faith.

The whole thing is predicated upon having faith. As Ryan explained earlier, you have to accept that the christian god and the christian dogma is true in order to reach the conclusion that god will reveal himself through this means.
Other cultures have used the same argument of ask and you shall receive to prove any number of gods.

(February 25, 2013 at 9:08 pm)Drich Wrote: No. Sin=Death. all who sin owe a death. only Christ can die for another.

Only Christ can die for another? You ignorant fuck. Let me introduce you to Ross McGinnis:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_A._McGinnis

(February 27, 2013 at 12:27 am)FallentoReason Wrote:

Drich Wrote:Now take another step back and follow your thought to it's conclusion.. Months tick by, maybe even years, and at some point the 'believer' (maybe after after loosing the girl he wanted to someone elses even after he had struck a deal with his idea of God) concludes he has been behind his own experience of god all along. Then what happpens? Then the disgruntled misotheists takes the name Atheist because 'Miso/hate' and intollerance is a soceitial sin that is not easily over come. Starts an anti God Campaign (unknowingly this is most likly the first bit of honest 'seeking' the Miso, has ever done.) Unfortunatly pride keeps the Miso from the Ask/Knock part because of "ALL" the "Christian things" he did in the past.

I'll take your stabs at my personal life as a sign that I'm getting to you. Here's something else I haven't told you about that missions trip (I think):

2 of my friends and myself were getting ready for bed. We all jumped into our beds and whipped out our Bibles. I was reading a passage about treasures being stored in heaven and this raised a particular question I had, so I asked one of my friends. Before long, he basically started painting this picture before me of God's never-ending love for us via different verses. The more he explained this, the warmer I felt in my chest. I was trying my hardest to stay focused on what he was telling me, but I couldn't keep it in and I cracked. I started crying so hard at this overwhelming feeling that came over me that I got up and headed to the bathroom to clean myself up. For the next 15-20 minutes I couldn't stop crying (and sweating from this intense warm feeling inside of me). It was getting late so we had to turn off the lights and go to bed, but there I was still silently sobbing to myself at how compassionate God was. From then on, I knew I had had a personal experience with God.

I, like you, had up to that point already accepted that God existed, that he had a personal relationship with everyone, that Jesus was his Son & that the Bible speaks the truth. Like in 1984, I let go of reason (i.e. God never appearing despite my sincere belief in him) and went with faith. The result? Fooling myself, just like you do, that I had encountered God.

In the above post I wrote you an appology for bring in your personal story. It was not intentional I tend to assoceiate you all with your avatars, and when you changed yours some of what we discussed was left behind. It was not my intention to attack you personally. i was simply making a point by illustrating something that happpens many times with people in the faith.

as far as your experience I have no doubt that you experienced God.

As I said if you A/S/K God will show up. However in order for Him to stay you have to be faithful to what you have been given.

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(February 27, 2013 at 12:30 am)FallentoReason Wrote:

Quote:Didn't I already shoot this 1984 A/s/k thing down already? I think it had something to do with Chocolate last time.

I was trying to find the thread to see how it had ended, but I couldn't find it.

I highly doubt you shot it down. Philosophical points aren't your strong suit, so I doubt you came anywhere near showing that A/S/K/ isn't a self-torture-based system for "achieving" a personal revelation.

It ended with me stating that you doing your own version of what God tells you to do is not the same as doing what God tells yoou to do.

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(February 27, 2013 at 12:44 am)Question Mark Wrote:

(February 27, 2013 at 12:31 am)Drich Wrote: There is no need to appologise for your inablity to communicate, I understand pomp and circumstance has one default to the 'fancy words' when they are on their heels. Just rephrase and try again.

No problem, I'll use words with less than four syllables.

ASK, Ask, Seek Knock.

Ask and it shall be given to you, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened to you.
In effect, ask god to prove himself to you, and apparently he will. The clever cover up here is that if someone is bent upon finding god, then sure, they'll fool themselves into believing it for any reason. I've heard of people walking through parks and seeing three waterfalls on a decorative water display, and interpreting it as a sign of the trinity.
Anyone of moderate or skeptical tendencies who isn't going to fall into something so fanciful, are brushed off as not having enough faith.

The whole thing is predicated upon having faith. As Ryan explained earlier, you have to accept that the christian god and the christian dogma is true in order to reach the conclusion that god will reveal himself through this means.
Other cultures have used the same argument of ask and you shall receive to prove any number of gods.

I am having the same conversation with Ryan right now, do I honestly need to have it with you at the same time? or can't you just read what I wrote to Him and you respond to what has already been said?

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(February 27, 2013 at 12:48 am)cato123 Wrote:

(February 25, 2013 at 9:08 pm)Drich Wrote: No. Sin=Death. all who sin owe a death. only Christ can die for another.

Only Christ can die for another? You ignorant fuck. Let me introduce you to Ross McGinnis:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_A._McGinnis

Did Ross' death atone for sin as well? If not then what ross did Heroic as it was, is not what is being discussed.

Red herring.

Drich Wrote:In the above post I wrote you an appology for bring in your personal story. It was not intentional I tend to assoceiate you all with your avatars, and when you changed yours some of what we discussed was left behind. It was not my intention to attack you personally. i was simply making a point by illustrating something that happpens many times with people in the faith.

I forgive you, as long as you understand the fundamental point though; that trivialities in someone's life are irrelevant. We're discussing the specifics from a philosophical point, meaning that particular events in our life are undermined by the fact that we could have been wrong from the very beginning, regardless of the outcome.

Quote:as far as your experience I have no doubt that you experienced God.

Perfect. Then it seems like you agree with what everyone here is saying; that the believer fulfils their own needs.

Quote:As I said if you A/S/K God will show up.

Said every religion ever invented.

Quote:However in order for Him to stay you have to be faithful to what you have been given.

Agreed, if your particular god actually existed. More to the point though, for the delusion to persist, one must keep overriding reason with faith.

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Drich Wrote:It ended with me stating that you doing your own version of what God tells you to do is not the same as doing what God tells yoou to do.

Your fallacious reasoning gets tiring...

You need to cut out this modified use of the No True Scotsman fallacy. Throughout these threads, I persistently keep seeing you tell people they're doing it wrong and that you have the True Method™ for whatever might be the discussion at the time. I.e. the person didn't achieve the desired outcome, therefore the "Drich Verdict" is that you've got it all wrong and that Drich clearly has it right, always.

Lose your pride.