(March 15, 2013 at 12:57 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote:

(March 15, 2013 at 12:47 pm)jstrodel Wrote: What is the Word of God?

By "Word of God", I mean revelation from God.

Since I don't have a belief that the Bible is the Word of God, it's not up to me to define it any more clearer than that. I'm not the one making the assertion. It is up to the one making the assertion to define and prove.

From my house, it looks like you're the one who made the assertion, just sayin...

(March 15, 2013 at 1:06 pm)catfish Wrote: From my house, it looks like you're the one who made the assertion, just sayin...

That's because you're stupid.

(March 15, 2013 at 1:08 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote:

(March 15, 2013 at 1:06 pm)catfish Wrote: From my house, it looks like you're the one who made the assertion, just sayin...

That's because you're stupid.

Says the dumbass who can't even read his own post...

Yeah, yeah, you said it before and you'll say it again, but you'll forget and blame it on someone else...

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It's post 213 in case you want to go back and edit it out...

"I've said it before and I'll say it again. You have two options with the Bible:
1. It IS the Word of God
2. It IS NOT the Word of God."

Quote:By "Word of God", I mean revelation from God.

Since I don't have a belief that the Bible is the Word of God, it's not up to me to define it any more clearer than that. I'm not the one making the assertion. It is up to the one making the assertion to define and prove.

Now Chad has an even more difficult task ahead of him. He must not only define and prove that the Bible is the Word of God, but also explain his magical powers he uses to determine which parts are divine, which parts are human and which parts are divine parable that he uses his awesome divination powers to decode.

You cannot reason either:
1. the Bible is the Word of God
2. the Bible is not the Word of God

If the words do not refer to anything. What if the Bible is neither your concept of the Word of God nor its negation, it is just a different concept?

The category of the "Word of God" has been understood by many different things. So when you say:

It is either a or not a - If necessarily it is a or not a (necessarily the Bible is the Word of God or not the Word of God)

What if it is like this: There is a dialectic between divine inspiration and human authorship. It is a scale

============================================
|Word of God concept -a | | Word of God / human -b | Word of God - c
Now you look at this and you say, necessarily, the Bible is the Word of God or it isn't. Well, what do these word actually refer to? There are many ways in which the Bibles description and supernatural testimony of itself could be fullfilled. All scripture IS God breathed and is useful for teaching, correcting, rebuking and training in righteousness. 2 Ti 3:16

If all scripture is God breathed, does this mean that Word of God concept a is correct? Scripture makes a truth claim that the Bible is the Word of God (which is does, see above), does that mean that it supports your concept of what God should speak like?

No, your argument fails, necessarily, the Bible is the Word of God or it isn't, but this obscures the dialectical relationship between God's sovereignty and free will, which exists in the text of the Bible. The Bible is the Word of God, but it is also human. So the categories of "The Word of God" and "Not the Word of God" must reflect this dialectical reality in which the Bible clearly has parts that are certainly the Word of God and are human at the same time.

Biblical interpretation follows this model:
1. Thesis - Human beings sinned and created a need for God to speak to them
2. Antithesis - God speaks to His servants the prophets
3. Synthesis - The prophets reveal the counsel of God for sinful people, and express the personality of God in the culture, morality to some degree, language and personality of the prophets that speak specific words to specific people that makes God seem tied to some culture but which is related to the way in which the thesis and antithesis work together

Quote:I'll agree to pay a special teach-science-in-science-class tax if you agree to pay the dumb-ass-who-voted-for-Bush-in-04-after-it-was-obvious-he-lied-us-into-a-war-in-Iraq tax.

Your tab comes to about $3 trillion.

Fair enough. I think the War in Iraq was a huge mistake. I am a pro-peace Republican.

(March 15, 2013 at 12:17 pm)jstrodel Wrote: I know how the system is setup. You are not making any argument defending the current system, you are making an argument from authority. It is wrong to force people to pay for an education system that goes against the values God has given to people, and in a country that is 80% Christian, people have every right to challenge the way that the system is setup.

Are saying that you want 20% of the population to have beliefs that have no evidence for them, forced on them by an authoritarian government rather than have an education system that just relies on things that are true.

People can pollute their brains with all kind of crap outside of school if they like

It worked for you.

@Chad, Catfish and Jstrodel

If you read my entire post on the Word of God dichotomy, it offers the opportunity to any of you to explain the magical powers you use to fully distinguish and decode the Sorta-Kinda Word of God.

Good luck.

It seems as though the issue being taken isn't neccessarily the difficulty in defining "The word of God" which seems trivial to say the least.

The problem is the different interpretations and the varying effects such interpretations have.

Is The Bible:

Instructions?
Guidelines?
Abstract Concepts?


Isn't this "word" provided to us by The Devine Creator of all things?
How can there be so much confusion on how to interpret these things (literal or not)?

Even if we accept that this is The Devine Word of God, what next?

The bible says that if we let God into our hearts he will guide us, but...why is there no consistency? How can God guide people in so many different directions? All of these questions arrise while at the same time keeping in mind that it is derrived from a perfect being.

If I purchase a bicycle for my child, and open the box, it comes with instructions. If I follow the instructions correctly, I will properly assemble the bike. There are warnings and cautions pertaining to necessary steps that must be adhered to in order to avoid injury, and if I follow all of these things, my son will be able to safely ride and enjoy a new bike.

If I persue a Christian Faith, I get a book intended to guide me away from hell and into the gates of heaven. This is far more important than riding a bike. Not to mention it was written by an all powerful perfect God.

I should be able to logically assume that such a creator that is responsible for my very ability to comprehend, will have no problem knowing exactly what message to provide me so that I may avoid certain unspeakable doom. Afterall, he loves me more than I could fathom. The guy at Huffy had no issues guiding me to an assembled bicycle for a 4 year old. Well?

Look at the last 23 pages of this thread! Try to find a FAQ page or a Huffy forum that has so many different interpretations of how to put a 10 inch wheel bike together.

This is not what you would expect from such an important book containing such valuable information, written by a perfect being. Literal or not. Some of Plato's work is known as completely abstract and yet there is still no where near as much controversy over the understanding of his intended messages.

I propose 2 possibilties:

1) It is the devine word of God in some form.

2)It is not the devine word of God in any form.

If 1 were true, the perfect God would be able to explain things to us better than Huffy.

If 2 were true, we would have exactly the confusion, misinterpretaion, and controversy this thread and society display everyday.

The evidence for 2 is overwhelming and must be manipulated to support 1. This is the problem for Christians.

I would like to entertain any possible suggestion to the contrary of this logic.

(March 15, 2013 at 1:40 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: [quote='jstrodel' pid='415147' dateline='1363364271']
I know how the system is setup. You are not making any argument defending the current system, you are making an argument from authority. It is wrong to force people to pay for an education system that goes against the values God has given to people, and in a country that is 80% Christian, people have every right to challenge the way that the system is setup.

Are saying that you want 20% of the population to have beliefs that have no evidence for them, forced on them by an authoritarian government rather than have an education system that just relies on things that are true.

People can pollute their brains with all kind of crap outside of school if they like

It worked for you.

No, I want people to be able to choose where they go to school, not have beliefs forced on them.

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(March 15, 2013 at 1:41 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: @Chad, Catfish and Jstrodel

If you read my entire post on the Word of God dichotomy, it offers the opportunity to any of you to explain the magical powers you use to fully distinguish and decode the Sorta-Kinda Word of God.

Good luck.

I use the method of scripture, tradition, reason and experience. It is not sorta kinda the word of God, it is the Word of God to specific people. The Holy Spirit also leads me and gives me visual images and teaches me. God shows me the way to interpret the Bible, and I also rely on Christian leaders, such as my Pastor who once in an airplane had a prophetic word for a man who was guilty of adultery and he walked up to the man and gave him a prophetic word telling him he had been caught in adultery. Then the man thanked him. I have received supernatural prophecies at that church many times, and other churches, and I follow their doctrinal views on scripture which use the method of scripture, tradition, reason and experience as well as are directly illuminated by the prophetic counsel of the Holy Spirit.

Huamn thought process.

(March 15, 2013 at 12:17 pm)jstrodel Wrote: I know how the system is setup. You are not making any argument defending the current system, you are making an argument from authority. It is wrong to force people to pay for an education system that goes against the values God has given to people, and in a country that is 80% Christian, people have every right to challenge the way that the system is setup.

And those same 80%, no doubt using their God given wisdom, have decided that it is not in their best interest to do so. God bless 'em.

Here's a counter-proposal. Since you seem to suggest that people not be forced to pay to support things that they don't agree with, let's make a fair split here. We'll take the current tax laws, and the 80% only have to pay 80% of their taxes, and the 20% only have to pay 20% of their taxes (since you wouldn't want them to be forced to subsidize the 80%). Of course, this will incur some deficit spending, so such lofty goals can likely only be achieved at a time when the Republicans hold control of both the executive and legislative branches of government.

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(March 15, 2013 at 11:20 am)jstrodel Wrote: The tax code could be set up any number of ways, as the education system. Why would you cite the present system to prove your value system...

Fuckall, I'm going to stop buying the expensive irony meters if he's just going to blow through them like this.


Some days, the makes more sense than he does.

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(March 15, 2013 at 2:09 pm)jstrodel Wrote: No, I want people to be able to choose where they go to school, not have beliefs forced on them.

Captain Obvious to the rescue.

People can choose where they go to school. They cannot choose either to use public funds to support religion, nor can they opt-out of mandated educational requirements.