Meylis - you ARE making stuff up and assuming plenty stuff.

Reading the above shows precisely what I said - it was the Banu Qurayza who chose that punishment because THEY believed in God and it was THEIR choice and their freedom which lead them to that and Muhammad pbuh d NEVER stood in their way. Hence why Jews and Muslims lived peacefully for centuries as enforced by Muslim Law.

Muhammad freed a slave and married her - this is what the text says. As to the state of this relationship somehow being unjust or being enforced on to his wife or even him abusive to his wife - this is YOUR addition and not that of the text. Based not on YOUR evidence but on YOUR invention. You should remain agnostic about these matters - not attaching your own back story - no?

I'm sure you didn't just make up this idea but you must wonder - if you didn't get this idea from the text then where? Where did you get this theory and false idea that Muhammad pbuh, in a hateful and anti-Semitic way, decided to punish these people according to his own evil fancy? Where did you get this idea that does not match with the evidence? The qurayza accepted the judgment as it was their judgement for treason based on Mosaic Law - that's what the text you've shown say....

Where did you get this idea, that dovetails with so many racist and bigoted attempts to paint Islam as anti Semitic - don't worry, I don't think you made it up. I just hope you can have an ounce of humility to see that this unsophisticated picture is not what the experts say. You should remain agnostic til you see the evidence but instead you have evidently taken a prejudiced backstory and somehow seen it in a text that disagrees with you - and says it was an incident of Mosaic law accepted by the Qurayza - not enfirced upon them by shariah (that's what you alongside other prejudging people apparently wish happened but if didn't and no evidence says this)....

Accept the evidence that you have given me and not your prejudice or that prejudice which has been foisted upon you.

Another example of your rejection of agnosticism is a fantasy story of Muslims slaughtering and raping Jews - this is not evidential. In fact this unrealistic fantasy is dangerous and backs up centuries of racism.

Pleas read again with an open mind....

It will help you in (I hope) your struggle for a just and free society that is free from racism and justification for making one group of people 'less human' than another.

Find out the real history and try to open your mind to the possibility that you might possibly be wrong with your picture of Muslims as rapist murderers.

I hope you find success

I think what is missing here Meylis is the fact that the abrahamic religions (all three of them) were made from the simple ramblings of poor uneducated & illiterate desert people with what we now understand to be mental health issues...aka they were nuts!

The grovelling and murder that has eschewed in the name of the deities from these poor unfortunates is STILL being cleaned up 2000 years after the supposed fact.

facts:

islam murdered. blamed their deity for it, so did the judeans and christians.

They are ALL still at it 1500 years later!! mental illness or WTF?

According to the experts it was the Qurayza's own "Mosaic Law"

According to the evidenceavailable this punishment differs from Muslim law and the punishment for treason, according t the Qurayza's own law was "accepted" by them.

This is what the evidence shows - as above.

Anyone wanting to stick to the evidence can see this - following other stories than the evidence is a dangerous fantasy.

Seriously - you don't need to accept that Islam is the best way of life given by God (though it is) but you don't also need to adopt previous Christian prejudice to back up your atheist world view...

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KichigaiNeko: I'm glad you will never perpetuate this silly idea that the Qurayza incident was an anti-semitic attack!

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When I say silly - I mean non-evidential

(March 16, 2013 at 8:04 am)Dawud Wrote: According to the experts it was the Qurayza's own "Mosaic Law"

According to the evidenceavailable this punishment differs from Muslim law and the punishment for treason, according t the Qurayza's own law was "accepted" by them.

This is what the evidence shows - as above.

Anyone wanting to stick to the evidence can see this - following other stories than the evidence is a dangerous fantasy.

Seriously - you don't need to accept that Islam is the best way of life given by God (though it is) but you don't also need to adopt previous Christian prejudice to back up your atheist world view...

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KichigaiNeko: I'm glad you will never perpetuate this silly idea that the Qurayza incident was an anti-semitic attack!

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When I say silly - I mean non-evidential

Well, what can I say.Talking to you is like talking to a wall since you're like a zombie - you see what you want to see. Actually, you resemble my twin. Honestly though, you have a disease. I call it a religion disease. You're like under hypnosis, but you can also eat, drink, shit, fuck etc.

First of all there wasn't one tribe, there were other tribes that were brutally murdered by muslims; all of which are in quran and hadiths. When it comes to Banu Quraysa, the guy you're talking about is Sa'd who was jewish convert to Islam who was seriously injured in the battle and who also wanted a revenge. Muhammad (shit be upon him) knew this and let Sa'd decide what to do with a tribe. Sa'd decision was to murder men who didn't have pubic hair and to sell the rest of the people in exchange for weapons. Muhammad replied saying that the decision was similar to allah's (god's) and said that he got a message from God approving it which is in quran. Just read sura 33 in quran and hadiths that I sent you.

Secondly, are you really telling me that entire jewish tribes agreed to be murdered and raped because it was in accordance with a jewish law. Please man, be realistic.

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(March 16, 2013 at 7:57 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: I think what is missing here Meylis is the fact that the abrahamic religions (all three of them) were made from the simple ramblings of poor uneducated & illiterate desert people with what we now understand to be mental health issues...aka they were nuts!

The grovelling and murder that has eschewed in the name of the deities from these poor unfortunates is STILL being cleaned up 2000 years after the supposed fact.

facts:

islam murdered. blamed their deity for it, so did the judeans and christians.

They are ALL still at it 1500 years later!! mental illness or WTF?

My hypothesis is very similar to yours. For a long time I couldn''t understand what Muhammad's motives were. But you're right he definately had a mental illness. The guy attempted a suicide, had 13 wives, 4 sex slaves, possibly had hallucianations, married a 9 year old and had sex with her, lied constantly, thought was above the law, ordered slaughtering of thousands ... I'm actually compiling a list of possible mental illnesses he may have had:


. Shizotypal Disorder with dellusional, narcisisstic features and OCD
. Narcisisstic Personality disorder combroid with other disorders including OCD, charlatan
. Bipolar Disorder with Antisocial features ( due to the hypersexuality, pedophilia, marriage to an older woman etc ). No offence to BDs, every BD is differenct.
. Antisocial Personality disorder combroid with other disorders including OCD. ( manipulative tactics to the point that I consider him as an emotional vampire, mass killings, racissm, obsession with power and beauty, hypersexuality, being above the law just to name the few.
. Severe anxiety to the point that he may have had problems with external stimuly. I've even heard one of his best friends (I think it was Abubakr, not sure) would close his ears to avoid sound when walking in the market. He may have had similar thing himself sicne he despised music.

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(March 16, 2013 at 8:04 am)Dawud Wrote: According to the experts it was the Qurayza's own "Mosaic Law"

What "experts"? Are talking about those baboons on tv that say women are to blame for rape?
The fact is most respected anthropologists, scientists, historians, people of literature and even regular people say that is was a horrible genocide. So don't make stuff up. "Experts" lol

I'm not telling you that the tribe accepted it - but the EVIDENCE YOU GAVE ME said it.

But you'll just accept and reject what you like and say it is false evidence - even though you gave it to me. This is because the evidence is subservient to your own hateful story.

The Hadith explicitly says the Qurayza accepted the penalty and explicitly says it was Mosaic law - not Muhammad pbuh's shariah - that was used to judge.

It says it in black and white they accepted it (if you actually read it) but you'll probably reject that black and white because you've already decided and are an embarrassment to those calling themselves agnostics who want to take evidence and not their backstory as a starting point.

I'm not even going to quote it because I want you to experience -actually- reading what those hadiths say including the express acceptance of the Jewish penalty for treason.

Listen dude, I'm not being hostile - if you want to decide that the Hadith are not worthy to be taken seriously then don't claim you know anything about Muhammad PBUH

Black and white my friend - trust that and not your prejudice.

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PS - it's the experts that you quoted to me

I thought you trusted them

(March 16, 2013 at 7:51 am)Dawud Wrote: Meylis - you ARE making stuff up and assuming plenty stuff.

Reading the above shows precisely what I said - it was the Banu Qurayza who chose that punishment because THEY believed in God and it was THEIR choice and their freedom which lead them to that and Muhammad pbuh d NEVER stood in their way. Hence why Jews and Muslims lived peacefully for centuries as enforced by Muslim Law.

Muhammad freed a slave and married her - this is what the text says. As to the state of this relationship somehow being unjust or being enforced on to his wife or even him abusive to his wife - this is YOUR addition and not that of the text. Based not on YOUR evidence but on YOUR invention. You should remain agnostic about these matters - not attaching your own back story - no?

I'm sure you didn't just make up this idea but you must wonder - if you didn't get this idea from the text then where? Where did you get this theory and false idea that Muhammad pbuh, in a hateful and anti-Semitic way, decided to punish these people according to his own evil fancy? Where did you get this idea that does not match with the evidence? The qurayza accepted the judgment as it was their judgement for treason based on Mosaic Law - that's what the text you've shown say....

Where did you get this idea, that dovetails with so many racist and bigoted attempts to paint Islam as anti Semitic - don't worry, I don't think you made it up. I just hope you can have an ounce of humility to see that this unsophisticated picture is not what the experts say. You should remain agnostic til you see the evidence but instead you have evidently taken a prejudiced backstory and somehow seen it in a text that disagrees with you - and says it was an incident of Mosaic law accepted by the Qurayza - not enfirced upon them by shariah (that's what you alongside other prejudging people apparently wish happened but if didn't and no evidence says this)....

Accept the evidence that you have given me and not your prejudice or that prejudice which has been foisted upon you.

Another example of your rejection of agnosticism is a fantasy story of Muslims slaughtering and raping Jews - this is not evidential. In fact this unrealistic fantasy is dangerous and backs up centuries of racism.

Pleas read again with an open mind....

It will help you in (I hope) your struggle for a just and free society that is free from racism and justification for making one group of people 'less human' than another.

Find out the real history and try to open your mind to the possibility that you might possibly be wrong with your picture of Muslims as rapist murderers.

I hope you find success

How is it a fantasy story idiot, I just showed you texts from quran and hadiths. Read them all again, but open your eyes this time. And please don't try to sound like a "good muslim" dealing with an ignorant. I've seen what muslims are capable of. I did open my eyes, I left islam and I'm glad. I don't believe in pedophiles like Mohammad. Btw if you doubt him being a pedophile we can discus that too.
And how can you possibly talk about racism. Islam is perhaps the most racist religion in the world. Name any Muslim country where christians, jews or people like Richard Dawkins can freely express their views without being attacked, demonized or killed?

Relax - take it easy and actually study this stuff without your emotional baggage and prejudice

(March 16, 2013 at 10:44 am)Dawud Wrote: I'm not telling you that the tribe accepted it - but the EVIDENCE YOU GAVE ME said it.

But you'll just accept and reject what you like and say it is false evidence - even though you gave it to me. This is because the evidence is subservient to your own hateful story.

The Hadith explicitly says the Qurayza accepted the penalty and explicitly says it was Mosaic law - not Muhammad pbuh's shariah - that was used to judge.

It says it in black and white they accepted it (if you actually read it) but you'll probably reject that black and white because you've already decided and are an embarrassment to those calling themselves agnostics who want to take evidence and not their backstory as a starting point.

I'm not even going to quote it because I want you to experience -actually- reading what those hadiths say including the express acceptance of the Jewish penalty for treason.

Listen dude, I'm not being hostile - if you want to decide that the Hadith are not worthy to be taken seriously then don't claim you know anything about Muhammad PBUH

Black and white my friend - trust that and not your prejudice.

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PS - it's the experts that you quoted to me

I thought you trusted them

I've sent you those quranic verses and hadiths to prove you that genocide did happen in general since muslims refuse to acknowledge. I sent those to prove you that even according to muslims sources it was a horrible crime. Of course , I could have shown you texts by other historians that say what I say. But you would then reject it saying it is a made -up story from west or atheists or christians or nonbelievers or hypocrits. In fact that's how you started the conversation. You basically said that it was an attempt of christians. So you would not accept any other sourse than quran and hadith.
As far as hadith is concerned, of couse they are goin say that they accepted the death. They are no going to say that MO brutally killed the men and raped the women. They're going to say they accepted men to be killed and women used as sex slaves. They are not going to say Mo fucked the jewish girl the same day he killed her husband and father. No, they're going to say Mo proposed marriage and she accepted. How can a girl marry a man who killed her husband and father. It's a common sense MORRON. If you want me to show western sources or arab sources or sources of "non-believers" I can show you, but you're simply going to reject since you only trust the the islamic source and who's being bias here?

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(March 16, 2013 at 10:44 am)Dawud Wrote: Listen dude, I'm not being hostile - if you want to decide that the Hadith are not worthy to be taken seriously then don't claim you know anything about Muhammad PBUH

Don't make stuff up, I didn't say that about hadiths. Read all the posts. Btw I chose hadiths and quran because that's the source nutheads trust most.

If you claim to know so much about MO then I challenge you on that. How ignorant you have to be to think that a man who had 13 wives ( one of them was a 9 year old) and 4 concubines a prophet? Would you still trust the hadiths or will you choose not to if I prove that he was a pedophile and sexually obsessed warlord?

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(March 16, 2013 at 10:46 am)Dawud Wrote: Relax - take it easy and actually study this stuff without your emotional baggage and prejudice

So do you accept my challenge?

I thought so Dawud. I see you running away.

... I have a life ...

If I show you that the evidence you showed me explicitly states that the banu Qurayza accepted the punishment and that it was under Mosaic Law will you accept that you have to admit that it wasn't under Muhammad's shariah but under a different law and that this sentence was accepted by the tribe?

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- Pbuh

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Or will you reject your evidence?

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Or will you admit that it wasn't under Muhammad pbuh's shariah and the banu Qurayza accepted the punishment?

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Your choice