(March 17, 2013 at 5:07 pm)jstrodel Wrote: You can prove it.

Obviously, it cannot be proven. Otherwise, there would be no doubt to the claim.

(March 17, 2013 at 4:37 pm)Moros Synackaon Wrote: If a third grader can't understand it, it must not be true?

You've gone full retard.

Good thing going full retard isn't a bannable offense.

For you, that is.

Obviously that was a sarcastic remark aimed at showing the logic of demanding coherence and verification without any specialized knowledge.

As in, "if third graders can't understand it, of course it isn't true"

Coherence and verification take work. Name one subject in which you can have them without work.

(March 17, 2013 at 5:07 pm)jstrodel Wrote: Because the Holy Spirit talks through people, gives words of knowledge. divine appointments, etc. It is real.

Spiritually mature means that the Holy Spirit lives in you and starts to strengthen you and give wisdom to you. When the Holy Spirit has born fruit in people you can see it.

You can prove it, although you can't prove it to a third grader.

When you keep pilling up bullshit, showing remarkable ignorance in cognitive development, it amounts to nothing. A third grader is incapable to understand calculus, even grownups have trouble with it. But it fucking works. Your god, your so vaunted theology don't even helped an infinitesimal to mankind compared to a simple discipline, a subset of Math that is calculus.

(March 17, 2013 at 5:08 pm)Mr Infidel Wrote:

(March 17, 2013 at 5:07 pm)jstrodel Wrote: You can prove it.

Obviously, it cannot be proven. Otherwise, there would be no doubt to the claim.

You can make up a system of proof to make it impossible to prove anything. That is what a typical atheist does, make up a standard that is designed to exclude Christian belief and make whatever things he is involved in the only criteria for defining truth, all as part of a broad culture war or technocratic aim.
It depends on how you define proof. Alvin Plantinga has argued that people can have Warranted Christian Belief in his book by the same time through properly basic beliefs by the Holy Spirit. It builds on several other books on epistemology that he wrote.

I agree with him. Christians can have an extremely high confidence that their beliefs are true. Whether they can prove this to others, is debatable. Many have found the arguments for the existence of God convincing. Personally, I find taking God seriously on God's own terms much more convincing.

http://www.amazon.com/Warranted-Christia...ian+belief

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(March 17, 2013 at 5:15 pm)LastPoet Wrote: When you keep pilling up bullshit, showing remarkable ignorance in cognitive development, it amounts to nothing. A third grader is incapable to understand calculus, even grownups have trouble with it. But it fucking works. Your god, your so vaunted theology don't even helped an infinitesimal to mankind compared to a simple discipline, a subset of Math that is calculus.

How can you be so sure that your failure to find God is not the same sort of failure that prevents grownups from understanding calculus? What if it is your failure, rather than theism's failure.

Why does your failure to appreciate the nuance of my argument reflect poorly on me? If you couldn't understand my argument, maybe you should go a little slower reading theology. Maybe you could learn more.

(March 17, 2013 at 5:17 pm)jstrodel Wrote: Christians can have an extremely high confidence that their beliefs are true.

Of course, anyone can fool themselves into believing anything. If someone has an extremely high confidence that unicorns and vampires are real, they will believe it despite the lack of evidence to support their beliefs.

(March 17, 2013 at 4:56 pm)jstrodel Wrote: That is what you think, from your understanding of theology.
I disagree. God is knowable. When two people who are spiritually mature talk to each other, you can see the Holy Spirit flowing. God's presence can be clearly known.

Of course, you may object that I can create a concept of "evidence" in which your beliefs cannot exist. That may be so, but I care very little about that standard of evidence, except as it relates to your soul.

Any information I have that I cannot conclusively verify by sources independent of myself is not 'knowledge'. I can verify that others have had experiences which they may describe as similar to mine, but no more than that. It fails as proof on several levels:

1. It does not verify the existence of any god.
2. It does not verify the existence of your specific god.
3. It does not verify that any such episode is communication from any god.
4. It does not verify that any such episode is communication from your specific god.
5. It does not verify that any such episode is communication of any kind.
6. It does not verify that any such episode cannot be caused by else entirely.
7. There are alternative explanations which can be verified scientifically.
8. The contents of your message will certainly be contradicted by other, similar claims.
9. How can anything be known which cannot be physically observed and is so vastly contradictory?


There is no 'knowledge' here, and to attach that label to your stupid, crazy delusions is an insult to everyone who actually labors to discover the truth.

(March 17, 2013 at 5:17 pm)jstrodel Wrote: How can you be so sure that your failure to find God is not the same sort of failure that prevents grownups from understanding calculus? What if it is your failure, rather than theism's failure.

Grownups, barring severe mental problems, can understand math if they indulge themselves in doing it and learn its construction, it stems from ignorance of a well established structure with many applications in our world. To understand a god whatever that means, there is no structure, no logic, just a bunch of idiots, taking stuff out of their asses and the sheep that blindly follow them. Which one of them are you?

Quote:Why does your failure to appreciate the nuance of my argument reflect poorly on me? If you couldn't understand my argument, maybe you should go a little slower reading theology. Maybe you could learn more.

All I could possibly see in that drible is piss-poor ignorance or blatant dishonesty. To learn theology is the same as to learn to read tea leaves, or reading auras, a whole dim-witted load of bullshit. Enjoy your time reading stories.

And I take it he still has failed to provide a valid benefit to the world "natural theology" has provided.

Ryantology prove your definition of knowledge is the only one anyone could have.

(March 17, 2013 at 5:47 pm)jstrodel Wrote: Ryantology prove your definition of knowledge is the only one anyone could have.

God told me that it is. In a revelation. Prove that didn't happen.