Quote:Some science challenges a literal interpretation of Genesis.

All science charged with discovering the origins of the world and universe flatly denies the literal account of Genesis. And, if the beginning of the story is bullshit, why believe that the rest of it isn't?

Quote:Science began as a mostly Christian enterprise, now it is partially secular.

How fucking ignorant. Science, as we understand it, began in Ancient Greece, flourished in medieval Muslim empires (while Christendom was mired in the pits of superstition and ignorance), and has only ever been acceptable to Christians when the findings do not contradict their dogma.

Quote:Many of the greatest scientists in history have believed in God.

Thus proving that even the smartest men get it wrong sometimes. Also, theists do claim to have scientists among their number who never did, such as Albert Einstein. Many who make positive statements about 'god' are in reference to a 'natural' God, such as that of Spinoza, not the totalitarian dictator Christians worship.

Quote:All of the major universities started as Christian universities and still are Christian to a large degree.

All major opposition to science in the west started as a Christian endeavour and this remains true to this day.

Quote:55% of scientists believe in God.

Show sources which indicate the percentage of scientists who believe in a personal God.

Either your pastor is an idiot or you are. The bible isn't a science book, only an idiot would think so.

(March 17, 2013 at 8:59 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Either your pastor is an idiot or you are. The bible isn't a science book, only an idiot would think so.

I don't think the bible is a science book. I was raised hardcore Christian, and that is precisely why I'm on this forum. I'm trying to get outside of my comfort zone and learn something for a change.

(March 17, 2013 at 8:59 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Either your pastor is an idiot or you are. The bible isn't a science book, only an idiot would think so.

lol. It's so rare that I get the chance to kudos Frodo's posts and I've gone and done it twice in one month.

But to address the words of your pastor:
Why are you still going to church? People who think talking snakes and people floating into the sky on horse drawn chariots are real should not be listened to and they sure as hell should not be regularly validated by large groups of brainwashed jello heads.

(March 17, 2013 at 9:23 pm)Cinjin Wrote:

(March 17, 2013 at 8:59 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Either your pastor is an idiot or you are. The bible isn't a science book, only an idiot would think so.

lol. It's so rare that I get the chance to kudos Frodo's posts and I've gone and done it twice in one month.

But to address your pastor:
Why are you still going to church? People who think talking snakes and people floating into the sky on horse drawn chariots are real should not be listened to and they sure as hell should not be regularly validated by large groups of brainwashed jello heads.

I've only considered myself a non-christian for about a month or 2. I'm just getting to a point where calling myself an atheist isn't too weird. I'm still going to church bc my family doesn't know yet, my husband is on the worship team, and I help out too. It's hard to back out of being so involved all at once.

(March 17, 2013 at 6:57 pm)sarcasticface Wrote: Hello.

I'm in the process of finding out what I believe. I still go to a Christian church even though I don't believe in the bible anymore. So today the pastor was saying how science and the bible go hand in hand, but science hasn't yet caught up with the bible. When I heard him say this I could hardly wait to get home and find out what you guys had to say.

I don't know anything about science, so I would love to get suggestions on videos, articles, blogs, or books about how religion and science go together OR how they DON'T go together. I just want to do my research. Do science and other religions (besides Christianity) match up? Science and the Quran?

Please share. I am but a sponge ready to soak up your knowledge.

This is the method with which scientists gain knowlege:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_rationalism


Religion works with prophecies and absolutes which is why it is the absolute opposite of science.

Science is a constant process in which things are questioned and reevaluated.

Whilest in religion, things are forbidden to be questioned, even if they are wrong.

Quote:All science charged with discovering the origins of the world and universe flatly denies the literal account of Genesis. And, if the beginning of the story is bullshit, why believe that the rest of it isn't?

But people have been interpreting Genesis non-literally for thousands of years. Your are presupposing that Genesis actually teaches a Young Earth. There are actually two stories in Genesis, Adam's name means simply man and there are other textual clues that say that that Genesis could be understood non-literally. You want Genesis to teach a Young Earth so you can say that science disproves Christianity, but you don't care about the many people such as the 48% of seminary professors that accept evolutionary theory and don't believe in a literal interpretation of Genesis.

Quote:How fucking ignorant. Science, as we understand it, began in Ancient Greece, flourished in medieval Muslim empires (while Christendom was mired in the pits of superstition and ignorance), and has only ever been acceptable to Christians when the findings do not contradict their dogma.

Aristotelian philosophy is much different from the science that comes from the modern period in men like Newton and Bacon and Locke. It is interesting that you mention the Greeks though, Aristotle who is really the founder of a lot of science believed in God. You cite the Greeks as if they don't prove the exact opposite point you are trying to make, which shows that you are a sophist and care only about your culture war and not understanding.

Quote:Thus proving that even the smartest men get it wrong sometimes. Also, theists do claim to have scientists among their number who never did, such as Albert Einstein. Many who make positive statements about 'god' are in reference to a 'natural' God, such as that of Spinoza, not the totalitarian dictator Christians worship.

Einstein was a pantheist. The man who was the first to propose the big bang was a Christian. The founder of modern genetics was a Christian (Mendel). Isaac Newton was a Christan.

Quote:All major opposition to science in the west started as a Christian endeavour and this remains true to this day.

With your attitude and dishonest heart, it is not hard to see why Christians would oppose science.

Quote:Show sources which indicate the percentage of scientists who believe in a personal God.

http://www.livescience.com/379-scientist...pline.html
http://ncse.com/rncse/18/2/do-scientists...reject-god

There are plenty others

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chr...in_science

(March 17, 2013 at 9:12 pm)sarcasticface Wrote: I don't think the bible is a science book. I was raised hardcore Christian, and that is precisely why I'm on this forum. I'm trying to get outside of my comfort zone and learn something for a change.

Then what is your question? You think that is what your pastor was saying?

Some refer to this as NOMA : or Non Overlapping Magesteria

I'm strongly in the non overlapping camp. Young Earth Creationists are in the overlapping camp.
For an insight into my understanding, check out John Walton's book. Brief synopsis here: http://davidjohnstone.net/blog/2009/12/n...ohn-walton

Getting outside of your comfort zone is good. I'm dismayed that you haven't done it before.

(March 18, 2013 at 4:38 am)fr0d0 Wrote:

(March 17, 2013 at 9:12 pm)sarcasticface Wrote: I don't think the bible is a science book. I was raised hardcore Christian, and that is precisely why I'm on this forum. I'm trying to get outside of my comfort zone and learn something for a change.

Then what is your question? You think that is what your pastor was saying?

Some refer to this as NOMA : or Non Overlapping Magesteria

I'm strongly in the non overlapping camp. Young Earth Creationists are in the overlapping camp.
For an insight into my understanding, check out John Walton's book. Brief synopsis here: http://davidjohnstone.net/blog/2009/12/n...ohn-walton

Getting outside of your comfort zone is good. I'm dismayed that you haven't done it before.

I guess my main goal of this thread was to learn something about science and religion from the viewpoint of others. I'm excited to check out all the links people have posted.

Yeah, it's pretty sad that I haven't thought to get outside my comfort zone when it comes to questioning my beliefs, but I'm really excited now to think outside of my lifelong indoctrination. Although, I do feel kinda like an alien on this forum because I have no clue or opinions on most of the stuff people on here talk about.

(March 18, 2013 at 8:02 am)sarcasticface Wrote: I guess my main goal of this thread was to learn something about science and religion from the viewpoint of others. I'm excited to check out all the links people have posted.

In my view the two don't overlap, despite what fundies say. If one takes the genesis account literally then he is overlapping as science has proven that the genesis account word by word contradicts scientific findings. Some religious people have accepted that scientific properties of our universe is "the way god does stuff". Well, I'm not satisfied with that and I really wonder why one should be.

Quote:Although, I do feel kinda like an alien on this forum because I have no clue or opinions on most of the stuff people on here talk about.

Yes, this forum has its fast pace (as a moderator I can vouch for it), but its normal to feel 'newbie'. Stick around, create your threads discuss and ignore the trolls untill they are dealt with, that's the best advice i can give