You just said science three times. What about science makes it the best tool for understanding morality, love, marriage, families, the nature of work, the meaning of life, the origin of the universe, the nature of death, the nature of justice, politics, the end of the world and other topics? The last time I checked, science is a tool primarily used for aiding industrial manufacturing, military technology, medicine and learning about physical and biological metrics to study the natural world.

How can you even compare the two? Science has no answers to the above questions.


How about this: when you say science, substitute "atheistic philosophy" for all of the above, instead, to answer all of the problems left when atheists are successful in convincing people that there is no God and there is no meaning to life and they can do whatever they want.

You mention three epistemological terms: empirical, falsifiable and science. What is your preoccupation with epistemology? Well, I will give you this. I think you are an immature person if you think epistemology is more important than all the above things I mentioned, but as a young person and a student, you are more concerned with certain types of truth claims, I will relate to you on that level.

How does the epistemology of your philosophical beliefs which answer the above questions satisfy the conditions listed above? Correct me if I am wrong, but I will answer it for you: it is not empirical, it is not falsifiable, it is not science in any sense of the word. You have no answers to the questions that religion answers which meet those criteria.

It is almost as if what you have done is take a pair of calipers and measure something in an industrial machine tools factory and measured out certain precise dimensions, and claim that religious belief is fallacious because it fails to precisely measure God. Of course this is a ridiculous example, but this is basically what you are trying to do.

You create a standard that has certain features that appear rigorous to you, for whatever reasons you don't say. Then you put atheism into the category of "non belief" rather than belief in a comprehensive philosophy. Then you argue against Christianity because Christianity does not mean certain criteria that you mention that are evident in some aspects of your belief system: empiricism, falsifiability and science.

The only way you can get away with this is because you define your belief system in terms of a rejection of something else, rather than a real attempt to understand life and provide explanations for things. The reason that you do this is because you cannot put this on anywhere near the evidential status of Christianity. Your philosophy is not falsifiable and it is not empirical, but you hide this by saying that this is not a part of atheism.

Well, what the hell is atheism then? Why compare atheism to Christianity if atheism is only non belief, it isn't belief? If you had courage, you would list all your approaches to dealing with the necessary questions that Christianity raises and you would, if you were honest, describe the epistemology not only to reject Christian belief (actually which doesn't disprove it, it only fails to prove it from your perspective) but to describe the areas that Christianity describes (perhaps not all of them, but most of them, what is the atheist view of the family? how do atheists define this? under what grounds?).

(March 23, 2013 at 11:43 pm)jstrodel Wrote: Science has no answers to the above questions.

Last time I checked, the only thing religion had an answer for was how gullible can these people be?

(March 23, 2013 at 11:43 pm)jstrodel Wrote: You just said science three times. What about science makes it the best tool for understanding morality, love, marriage, families, the nature of work, the meaning of life, the origin of the universe, the nature of death, the nature of justice, politics, the end of the world and other topics? The last time I checked, science is a tool primarily used for aiding industrial manufacturing, military technology, medicine and learning about physical and biological metrics to study the natural world.

How can you even compare the two? Science has no answers to the above questions.

Let me tell you something once and for all, because you haven't understood it yet.

You don't need religion to be a good person. You don't need religion to tell you anything. There is no reason that one has to get those answers from religion.

Your pathetic interpetation of atheists being bad people goes back to your sad experience as one. I got a goddamn news flash for you: atheists aren't bad people. They're not drug addicts. They're not punk-rock Marxists. And they're not whatever the hell else you think they are.

I'm sick of you talking about the "atheist subculture" like it's a thing. Your pathetic, pretentious posts about how you don't want to see anyone turn to atheism because atheism will cause you to act badly towards your parents (the fuck is that about?).

Let me tell you this right now: I don't rule out the possibility of a higher power after I die. What I do rule out is your God, or any God that anyone belives right now. Because there is absolutely no reason that your religion is any truer than someone else's. So you hide behind faith. Faith is an act of pride. Faith says "I believe this and I am not wrong, no matter what I'm told!"

All you have is faith. And that's fine! I'm not against religion! I'm not against religious belief! It's good for some people. It was good for you, apparently! But you have to acknowledge that the only thing backing your claim is your faith. And nothing else.

And goddammit, that's not good enough for me or any other atheist here. So take your goddamned delusional view of atheists and stick it up your ass.

Christians like you give me a sour taste.

(March 24, 2013 at 10:58 am)CleanShavenJesus Wrote: Christians like you give me a sour taste.

I heard pineapple can change the taste...
.

(March 24, 2013 at 11:28 am)catfish Wrote:

(March 24, 2013 at 10:58 am)CleanShavenJesus Wrote: Christians like you give me a sour taste.

I heard pineapple can change the taste...
.

But avoid broccoli or all your girlfriends will be spitters.

(March 24, 2013 at 10:58 am)CleanShavenJesus Wrote:

(March 23, 2013 at 11:43 pm)jstrodel Wrote: You just said science three times. What about science makes it the best tool for understanding morality, love, marriage, families, the nature of work, the meaning of life, the origin of the universe, the nature of death, the nature of justice, politics, the end of the world and other topics? The last time I checked, science is a tool primarily used for aiding industrial manufacturing, military technology, medicine and learning about physical and biological metrics to study the natural world.

How can you even compare the two? Science has no answers to the above questions.

Let me tell you something once and for all, because you haven't understood it yet.

You don't need religion to be a good person. You don't need religion to tell you anything. There is no reason that one has to get those answers from religion.

Your pathetic interpetation of atheists being bad people goes back to your sad experience as one. I got a goddamn news flash for you: atheists aren't bad people. They're not drug addicts. They're not punk-rock Marxists. And they're not whatever the hell else you think they are.

I'm sick of you talking about the "atheist subculture" like it's a thing. Your pathetic, pretentious posts about how you don't want to see anyone turn to atheism because atheism will cause you to act badly towards your parents (the fuck is that about?).

Let me tell you this right now: I don't rule out the possibility of a higher power after I die. What I do rule out is your God, or any God that anyone belives right now. Because there is absolutely no reason that your religion is any truer than someone else's. So you hide behind faith. Faith is an act of pride. Faith says "I believe this and I am not wrong, no matter what I'm told!"

All you have is faith. And that's fine! I'm not against religion! I'm not against religious belief! It's good for some people. It was good for you, apparently! But you have to acknowledge that the only thing backing your claim is your faith. And nothing else.

And goddammit, that's not good enough for me or any other atheist here. So take your goddamned delusional view of atheists and stick it up your ass.

Christians like you give me a sour taste.

What percentage of your friends use illegal drugs or drink to the point of drunkenness at least once a month? 70%?

(March 24, 2013 at 1:36 pm)jstrodel Wrote: What percentage of your friends use illegal drugs or drink to the point of drunkenness at least once a month? 70%?

As an admitted former-drug addict you remind me of my older brother. He was in construction and when he was younger he would steal materials off job sites where he worked. Go figure, the rest of his life he has been paranoid about being stolen from.

(March 24, 2013 at 1:36 pm)jstrodel Wrote:

(March 24, 2013 at 10:58 am)CleanShavenJesus Wrote: Let me tell you something once and for all, because you haven't understood it yet.

You don't need religion to be a good person. You don't need religion to tell you anything. There is no reason that one has to get those answers from religion.

Your pathetic interpetation of atheists being bad people goes back to your sad experience as one. I got a goddamn news flash for you: atheists aren't bad people. They're not drug addicts. They're not punk-rock Marxists. And they're not whatever the hell else you think they are.

I'm sick of you talking about the "atheist subculture" like it's a thing. Your pathetic, pretentious posts about how you don't want to see anyone turn to atheism because atheism will cause you to act badly towards your parents (the fuck is that about?).

Let me tell you this right now: I don't rule out the possibility of a higher power after I die. What I do rule out is your God, or any God that anyone belives right now. Because there is absolutely no reason that your religion is any truer than someone else's. So you hide behind faith. Faith is an act of pride. Faith says "I believe this and I am not wrong, no matter what I'm told!"

All you have is faith. And that's fine! I'm not against religion! I'm not against religious belief! It's good for some people. It was good for you, apparently! But you have to acknowledge that the only thing backing your claim is your faith. And nothing else.

And goddammit, that's not good enough for me or any other atheist here. So take your goddamned delusional view of atheists and stick it up your ass.

Christians like you give me a sour taste.

What percentage of your friends use illegal drugs or drink to the point of drunkenness at least once a month? 70%?

Like, 30%, and that's only alcohol! And most of my friends are Christian. Jesus, man, what the hell do you think I do with my life.

Well, generalizations are just that. I am sorry if I put you in a category that you do not belong to. Obviously there is a limit to painting a whole group with certain characteristics.

For many atheists, the number would be much higher.

You don't see posts on DMT and ecstasy and whether pedofilia should be legal on Christian message boards. Another recent one was why rape is not objectively wrong, but becomes wrong in certain societies. Go figure, a feminist. Of course that is what they would say.

(March 24, 2013 at 1:46 pm)jstrodel Wrote: Well, generalizations are just that. I am sorry if I put you in a category that you do not belong to. Obviously there is a limit to painting a whole group with certain characteristics.

For many atheists, the number would be much higher.

You don't see posts on DMT and ecstasy and whether pedofilia should be legal on Christian message boards. Another recent one was why rape is not objectively wrong, but becomes wrong in certain societies. Go figure, a feminist. Of course that is what they would say.

But isn't that based on your sample set of one, yourself?