I believed in hell, wasn't happy about the concept, except when it came to crimes of super evil people like Saddam or Hitler.

Being happy with something doesn't make it true and being unhappy with something doesn't make it false. I am unhappy with poverty existing, it doesn't take it away, does it now?

(March 31, 2013 at 4:38 pm)Violet Lilly Blossom Wrote: Sure you can. From the very beginning: you took logic on faith...

I think from our previous discussion and your position here, that you believe in solipsism. I think this video does a good job articulating a better position to take.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14JavH4Rk...D163BE880A

Solipsism is basically the position of trolls.

Aside, I want to reiterate, that is a fantastic video series. Before you guys assume hell exists for no reason, I suggest watching that series.

(April 3, 2013 at 8:08 pm)Golbez Wrote:

(March 31, 2013 at 4:38 pm)Violet Lilly Blossom Wrote: Sure you can. From the very beginning: you took logic on faith...

I think from our previous discussion and your position here, that you believe in solipsism. I think this video does a good job articulating a better position to take.

And I think that you're a very silly person who assumes much, given that I am not a solipsist, and rather take many things on faith.

Quote:Solipsism is basically the position of trolls.

If you're not a solipsist: you subscribe not to logic, but to faith.

Evidently, you have to be filled to burst with faith to not be a troll.

Quote:Aside, I want to reiterate, that is a fantastic video series. Before you guys assume hell exists for no reason, I suggest watching that series.

And why should I watch it... are you capable of no argument yourself? Past experience would suggest that this is likely... but then I'd have to have faith in memories and in the data presented to me, wouldn't I? Absolutely.

Hell exists, and the reasons are as innumerable as the stars in the universe. The real question here is: in what form does hell exist?

Precisely. You take them on faith, a hunch, a guess, a belief. You are unsure of the knowledge. That is the solipsistic position. But you could be right. Rather than solipsism, maybe your position is purely trolling.

You should watch it so I don't have to write out a transcript of it, since it already exists.

The real answer is that hell exists as a word in language with a rich past in the stories of Man.

I've never cared about deconverting people. There is another thread on here where various Theists are all talking about their belief in a literal Adam, of Adam and Eve. To accept the existence of a literal Adam is to reject all the fundamental realities that we live in. Do I care to reach out to these people? No. If they somehow became Atheists they would just be stupid Atheists. The world wouldn't be any better. Someone who rejects the fundamentals of religion but is a Deist or the like, is close enough to an Atheist that I don't care to deconvert them either. I'll spend my time living my own life.

I see your point. But it is my hope that deconversion might make our politics move away from silly reasoning and beliefs to more rational and educated positions. So we might stop fighting against global warming (cap'n'trade) or stem cell research or gay marriage. I feel these issues are important to me and the safety and security of our future in general. That is my horse in the race. I'm tired of living under the rule of idiots. And nothing is more idiotic than ruling from a position without evidential support.

(April 3, 2013 at 10:57 pm)Golbez Wrote: ...deconversion might make our politics move away from silly reasoning and beliefs to more rational and educated positions. So we might stop fighting against global warming (cap'n'trade) or stem cell research or gay marriage.

Now the agenda comes out! Funny how it conforms so well to the stereotype.

Eh, I wasn't trying to keep it a secret. My motives here are primarily political. If people kept their religion to themselves, I wouldn't care. Of course, I think society would be better off without it anyway, and would support such an initiative for its own sake. I saw it as its own topic and didn't know I needed to state everything connected to it so as to obstruct your stereotypes, whichever they are.

(April 3, 2013 at 8:46 pm)Golbez Wrote: Precisely. You take them on faith, a hunch, a guess, a belief. You are unsure of the knowledge. That is the solipsistic position. But you could be right. Rather than solipsism, maybe your position is purely trolling.

I am quite certain of my knowledge. That does not mean I am unwilling to reconsider it, necessarily.

My very certainty is my faith in my correctness. I don't troll very often, if one considers trolling an attempt to get a negative emotional rise out of someone. However, I do often take positions which are not my own... as my girlfriend summarized when i was using 'big words' to say this: "to prove a point."

Quote:You should watch it so I don't have to write out a transcript of it, since it already exists.

Everything does... your point? It shouldn't be a particularly arduos task, take the Bible: Jesus dies.

Quote:The real answer is that hell exists as a word in language with a rich past in the stories of Man.

Hell is a place on Earth, just as every person's body is a temple. Their pleasure a celebration, their suffering a lamentation... Heaven and Hell are where pleasure is the greatest and where suffering is the greatest. Stories are indeed told of this, and it is considered part of various spiritualisms... people want to go to 'the happy place' when they die, and they largely want to avoid 'the torture place', though they may wish people they hate go there. Afterdeaths, hehe.

That's 'the real answer'. Just like every other one

I should note on the spirituality, how one might observe Christian Heaven to be a benign slavery, and Christian Hell to be an unlimited freedom... but it seems like a lot of needless work, and ultimately a side-tracking

(April 4, 2013 at 1:40 am)Golbez Wrote: My motives here are primarily political. If people kept their religion to themselves, I wouldn't care...

Of course your motives are political. 'In Government We Trust". I don't believe government is the highest moral authority, so no I will not keep my religion to myself. My religion informs my politics. If you let your politics determine your religion, then your priorities are confused.